silverorange stuff

I do alot of extended trips into the mountains and we use alot of water over a 4-8 day excursion. we are currently using a katadyn gravity bag taht yields about a 1 to 1.5 gallons over ten hours. pretty slow. you also need a place to hang it. the higher the better. we have been taking quite a few trips above timberline and this creates a real problem sometime. we have a 2.5 gallon collapsible jug for storage. can you treat the full 2.5 gallons of raw water with the miox by increasing the solution you add to the storage container or is it just for 1 liter bottles. five hours of wait to yield a large quantity of water is usually less time than we spend fishing in a day. could somebody answer my questions and get back to me via my e-mail mongeauxx@aol.com

thank you

The MSR MIOX pen allows you to generate Oxidate sufficient to treat 1, 2, or 4 liters at a time. So to treat your 2.5 gallon jug you would have to create 2 doses for 4 liters and 1 for 2 liters. I've done this before and it only takes a few minutes to prepare all 3 Oxidate doses.

I am the Marketing Manager at MIOX Corporation, and just wanted to comment on a few statements in the review. First of all, thank you for reviewing our product! Secondly, the CR123 lithium camera batteries will treat about 200 liters of water before they need to be replaced, and they are available at WalMart for $10 for a set. They are a fairly common camera battery, although not as readily available as AA batteries.

I also wanted to clarify the statement on viruses -- the purifier will actually inactivate all bacteria and viruses within 15 minutes and will inactivate the protozoan cyst Giardia within 30 minutes. The EPA's Guide Standard & Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers requires a 99.9% (3 log) removal of protozoan cysts.

Inactivation of the more resistant Cryptosporidium parvum oocyst is NOT required in the EPA Purifier Protocol. However, MIOX Corporation and MSR went beyond the requirements of the protocol in order to address any organism that might be of concern to the public. In order to measure high levels of inactivation, a very high initial level of oocysts must be used. In independent testing on the MSR MIOX Purifier, BioVir Laboratories, a government-qualified laboratory employing “Good Laboratory Practices,” started with 100,000 Cryptosporidium oocysts. This excessive concentration of Cryptosporidium would be highly unlikely to occur in natural waters. A 3 log (99.9%) removal of 100,000 oocysts would reduce the viable organisms to 100 oocysts. The MSR MIOX Purifier actually achieved more than 10 times the standard for protozoan cysts, accomplishing a 4 log (99.99%) removal in 4 hours, which equated to less than 10 viable oocysts, even in the more challenging test water.

In earlier, non-related studies conducted by the University of North Carolina (which is not a government-qualified lab for purifier protocol testing), the MIOX solution achieved a 95% removal of Cryptosporidium in 30 minutes. Individual consumers can use their own judgment to determine how long to wait -- if their immune system is compromised, or they are camping at a site that is likely to be highly contaminated, they should wait the full 4 hours to ensure 99.9% removal of Cryptosporidium. Giardia, viruses, and bacteria will be removed after 30 minutes.

This is a wonderful device if what you want is a compact little chlorine maker. Remember, sodium chloride? Your mixed oxidants is code for a strong chlorine solution. Why not just pack a very small bottle of chlorine bleach. Personally, I don't want to be in the same room with chlorine myself

In response to Doug's comment, he is somewhat correct. The main component of the mixed-oxidant solution is indeed a very dilute chlorine (Cl2 + HOCl + OCl-) that is completely harmless to the user. However, it appears that other chloroxygen compounds with more potent disinfection efficacy than chlorine are also being created, as evidenced by the ability of the MIOX Purifier to inactivate resistant protozoan cysts like Giardia and Crytosporidium. For example, Giardia is wiped out by mixed oxidants within 30 minutes. (As discussed above, wait 4 hours for 99.9% removal of the less common Cryptosporidium oocyst.)

In contrast, note that chlorine, including chlorine tablets or a small bottle of chlorine bleach, requires a 4-hour wait time for Giardia (versus the MSR MIOX Purifier's 30-minute wait), and chlorine will not inactivate Cryptosporidium at all. The reason for using the MSR MIOX Purifier instead of a small bottle of chlorine bleach is that the purifier accomplishes much more thorough inactivation of microorganisms much more rapidly.

Another good water purification alternative is a hand-held filtration pump. The advantage of a filtration pump is immediate removal of Cryptosporidium; however, viruses are too small to be removed with a filter, so filtration must be followed by some sort of chemical disinfection, such as iodine or chlorine. The MSR MIOX Purifier accomplishes total disinfection in one step, with no pumping required, and occupies only 1/7 of the space of a typical pump.

Katie Bolek,

I read some of your comments promoting the MIOX water purfier on the
"Silverorange.com" website. I am highly interested in your product
but am still in the process of educating myself about the product.
Can you please refer to a comparison between the MIOX purifier and
Chlorine Dioxide tablets/liquid. Perhaps your company is
knowledgeable of a comparison between MIOX and the "Micropur MP1"
Chlorine dioxide tablets produced by the Katadyn company. Thank you
for your consideration.

Sincerely,
ridgepole@gmail.com

Dear Ridge,

The MicroPur ClO2 tablets are a nice alternative since they are effective against all microorganisms and don't leave a bad taste in the water, just like the MIOX Purifier. I will highlight some of the advantages of the purifier below:

1. Wait Time -- The ClO2 tablets require a 4 hour wait time to inactivate Giardia, whereas the MIOX Purifier requires only a 30-minute wait time for Giardia.

2. Tablets vs. Reusable Device -- The main difference in using a tablet disinfectant vs. a resuable device is that the tablets have a lower cost upfront, whereas a reusable device will eventually reach a breakeven point if you treat multiple volumes of water. The MicroPur tablets sell for about $14 for 30 tablets, and 1 tablet is required per liter. This means that it costs about $0.47 to treat 1 liter of water with the ClO2 tablet, no matter how many liters you treat. With the MSR MIOX Purifier, the initial cost is higher, but your only ongoing cost of operations is replacement of the batteries. (Each set of batteries costs about $10 and will last for around 200 liters of treatment.) The breakeven point in cost for the MIOX Purifier versus ClO2 tablets is right around 300 liters of water treatment.

3. Shelflife -- Tablets have a limited shelflife, whereas the MIOX Purifier has an infinite shelflife (the batteries should last 7-10 years and are easily replaced), so it makes an excellent emergency water treatment device for an unplanned disaster, such as a power outage, hurricane, flood, or tornado.

4. Safety Guaranteed -- Something unique about the MIOX Purifier is the ability to verify that the water is safe to drink. Although standard dosage instructions for any disinfectant will be adequate for most waters, you may run across a water supply that has extra levels of contamination that are not visible to the naked eye. If you treat with the standard dosage, the disinfectant will be used up before all of the microorganisms are killed. With the MIOX Purifier, you have the option of verifying that the water is safe to drink with the purity indicator strip -- you can see if you need to double up on your dosage or not.

Hopefully, this will answer some of your questions. Please let me know if you need any more assistance!

Thank you,

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Just curious, but you site some mystery choroxygen compounds are created along with the chlorine. If these are not able to be positively identified, how are you certain they are acceptable for human consumption? It would seem that mystery compounds such as these, would need to be identified and rigorously tested before being released to the public. This is my main concern and is what is preventing me from buying the miox. I would appreciate you addressing this issue, Katie. Was testing health testing done, and if so, to what degree? Also have there been any side affects or health problems encountered from the mixed oxidants?

I've found all of this information very useful, and am on the brink of deciding to use the device throughout my upcoming 3-month stay in Senegal. However, one thing remains unclear. Salt is of course readily available, but I believe salt tablets are included in the package. Are these tablets necessary for use? If so, how can they be obtained? At what cost? If not, are there any requirements for the salt to be used? Can it be iodized? Can it be sea salt (the most common form in Senegal)? How much is required? I'd appreciate it if Katie or anyone else could answer these questions.

Thanks,
Nevin Dawson

I've been having problems with my Miox now for some time. Being an ultralite guy, I was super-excited when it came out. Sadly, my experiences have been really bad. on several trips, with instructions read and reread, I have have spotty results. Customer service from MSR has not really been helpful. Even in clear water, it often takes many many attempts to get the purifier to actually purify the water. Usually I get the solid red "not enough salt" light. I've different salt, more salt, less salt. It doesn't make a difference. The MSR folks told me to shake it more times and if it doesn't purify close and shake some more. All well and good, but 60-70 shakes can be a bummer (also uses up all the salt really quickly).

A good friend of mine picked one up as well, and has had the same problem on several occasions. I'm curious if I am missing out on some secret chant that I need to make or something.

I have experienced the same problems as Kevin. I bought the MIOX and it worked perfectly while testing it at home. However when I field tested it on an overnight backpacking trip I could not get the MIOX to work. It kept giving me the "low salt" reading that Kevin described. No amount of shaking would solve the problem. I used up almost half of the salt and still nothing. Fortunately I had brought along some tablets for emergency purposes. I contacted MSR and they also told me to "shake it more". I shaked until my arm almost fell off and it still didn't work, even with tap water. I finally returned the MIOX and got a new one hoping that I had just gotten a lemon. I have not had a chance to field test the new unit, but it does seem to be working at home. Of course the first one did too. Hopefully this is not a problem with all of the MIOX units. I really like the concept of the MIOX. If it fails my field test again though, I guess I will have to go back pumping with filters. The MIOX features are attractive, but all those features are worthless if it is unreliable.

Jester,

You mention the mystery chlor-oxygen compounds that are created along with the chlorine. Since we’re starting with only water (H2O) and salt (NaCl) as feed stocks, we know that any compound created has to be some combination of those 4 elements. These are the known or possible electrolytic reactions at the anode of the mixed-oxidant cell:

2 Cl- = Cl2 + 2e-
2H2O = O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
HOCl + H2O = ClO2 + 3H+ + 3e-
O2 + H2O = O3 + 2H+ + 2e-

The major reaction at the cathode is electrolysis of water:
2H2O + 2e- = H2 (gas) + 2OH-

The bulk solution can also undergo hydrolysis, which does not involve a transfer of electrons:
Cl2 + H2O = HOCl + Cl- + H+
HOCl = OCl- + H+

Here are what those chemical terms mean:
Cl2 = chlorine
O2 = oxygen
ClO2 = chlorine dioxide
O3 = ozone
H2 = hydrogen gas
OH- = sodium hydroxide
HOCl = hypochlorous acid (the more effective disinfecting component of chlorine)
OCl- = hypochlorite ion (the less effective disinfecting component of chlorine)

As you can see, all of the possible reactions would generate oxidants that are in common use today, such as chlorine dioxide and ozone. There’s a chance that these oxidants, if produced, are reacting with the chlorine and going to some sort of free radical, but again, those would only involve elements of chlorine and oxygen. Moreover, we’ve tested for the disinfection by-products (regulated by the EPA in municipal drinking water) associated with chlorine dioxide and ozone, and we’ve never found either one of those by-products (chlorite and bromate) in waters treated with the mixed-oxidant solution.

There have never been any negative health consequences associated with the mixed-oxidant solution used in normal consumption. As far as safety for the public, water treated with mixed oxidants is very similar to water treated with chlorine – it just tastes better. We’ve had installations at municipalities for nearly 10 years now, without any negative feedback. We have over 1200 full-scale generators operating worldwide, treating more than 1 billion gallons per day of water. Hopefully, this will address your concerns.

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Nevin,

The salt that comes in the package is rock salt, but actually, any kind of salt can be used with the MSR MIOX Purifier, including table salt, rock salt, or salt pellets. The salt can be iodized. Sea salt can also be used, but since it has high levels of contaminants, it is preferable that a different kind of salt be used. You may even want to take over a ziploc baggy of table salt or rock salt from the U.S. before you head out.

Salt is indeed necessary for use – salt, water, and power (supplied via batteries) are the three items necessary to make the purifier work. Note that the batteries will last for about 200 liters of water treatment – you might want to pick up a few spare sets of 3-volt CR-123 lithium camera batteries at WalMart before you go to Senegal (these batteries cost about $10 per set).

You can provide your own replacement salt, or you can pick up a replacement “kit” at stores like REI or Campmor for $17.95. This kit includes another baggy of salt, along with 50 additional safety indicator strips. The baggy of salt contains about 2 ounces of salt, which will last for around 200 liters of water treatment.

Thanks!

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Dear Kevin and Jason,

I’m sorry to hear about your issues with the MSR MIOX Purifier. Your problem actually sounds very similar to what a friend of mine and I were experiencing with our initial purifiers. I had wet down the salt in the salt cap, and filled the cell reservoir with additional water. Whenever I would shake it, the cell reservoir appeared to be half empty, and I kept getting a Low Salt fault, no matter how much I would shake it. I also used up my salt in the salt chamber in just a day or so.

The problem appeared to be connected to the seal in the salt cap – it was not allowing the brine to flow back into the cell, so the cell chamber was always only halfway full. (Not having enough brine in the cell chamber will also result in a Low Salt fault.) I found that if I took off the salt cap, and then actually unscrewed the end of the salt cap, plugged the opening with my thumb, and poured the brine solution back into the cell chamber, I could get that last remnant of brine out of the salt cap and back into the cell chamber, and then the purifier would work fine. Basically, as long as the cell chamber was filled to the brim after shaking, I wouldn’t get the low salt fault. The only way I could accomplish this was by manually pouring it back into the cell chamber from the salt cap; otherwise, the brine solution appeared to get somewhat “stuck” in the cap.

It appears that one of the earlier runs of purifiers experienced this problem. I actually traded my initial purifier in for another purifier and have not had the same problem since then. Hopefully, Jason’s 2nd purifier will work better for him. Kevin, I would recommend exchanging your purifier as well.

I will make sure that I communicate with the customer service department at MSR so they know that brine getting stuck in the salt cap can be an issue in some of the earlier purifiers. Please let me know if you have more luck with your 2nd purifiers.

Thanks!

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

I just bought the MIOX off of REI and i would just like to say thanks to all of you for your insight and kaitie with the specs its a cool new toy for my pack along with the msr dragonfly and zoid 1

lol i am a msr fanatic

I am very happy to have found this website so that I can get some questions answered that the REI people cannot seem to answer. I have only used the miox to purify tap water in another country. I often have to treat it up to three times to get a decent reading on the strips. Of course, by that time, it is like drinking chlorine instead of water. Is this common or am I doing something wrong? The other problem is the "low salt" light problem others have mentioned. After fooling with it interminably, etc., I am often able to get it to work, but now I realize there may be something wrong with the filter itself. Since I bought it last June, what are my chances that REI will trade it in, or can I do it through the company instead? I would really like to get this to work for me. Thank you.

Is there an alternate source for the test strips? At $17.95 for a bottle of 50, it seems that's the biggest expense to using the system. I've only just started using a Miox though so maybe I'm using more than I need. I realize one can just overtreat the water and assume it's OK. So far I've only played with it on tapwater anyway.

I see free chlorine and total chlorine strips are available in Cole-Parmer for $16/50, so that's not really a savings, and I haven't seen any description of what the MSR strips are measuring or the a threshold in ppm.

About the shaking issue: I got low salt light warnings until I used the technique of not so much shaking the thing, but rather inverting the device forcefully, then forcefully reverting it upright, in a 180 arc and stopping at the ends of the swing, pretty much precisely as illustrated in the manual. (RTFM!) Hope that helps someone.
My issue is the taste. Horrible, nasty, intolerable. NYC tap water, basically. I've made sure of the dosage, etc, and that's just the way it is. In my opinion, MSR is deceptively advertising this thing by saying "no unpleasant iodine taste". Come on! If you don't like drinking iodine, you won't like drinking this MIOX shit. I'm trying to return mine at the moment, but MSR's (Cascade Designs) first response to me was dismissive. If taste is an issue for you, look elsewhere.

After using this product twice weekly for the past year, I feel pretty qualified to add my two cents worth, especially concerning ease-of-use issues. You see, I live on a small island and most homes have municipally treated water or get theirs from a well. Not me. Unfortuanately, I get raw lake water out of my taps. After hauling water from town every week, I bought a MIOX pen, and while the batteries are expensive, the system I use works great.

I disinfect 2 gallons at a time. That means I fill the MIOX pen up with salt and use the 4-liter setting twice. It's for the water that goes into the teapot. For drinking water, I take MIOX treated water and fill a carbon-drip filter pitcher. My water is clearer and cleaner and better tasting than the town water I used to haul.

Here's some tricks for getting the MIOX pen to work consistently every time:

1. While the instructions that come with the thing tell you to fill the electrolosis chamber to the top, then capping it and shaking it through the screen, I found this to method to work only about 30 percent of the time. Instead, I use the old "finger-over-the-end-of-the-straw" principle:

First, I leave the cap MAIN cap ON, unscrew the smaller TOP cap (where one adds salt) and add water to the salt there. I then place my thumb over the top of the now watery salt chamber and shake for a few seconds until the water and salt have had a chance to co-mingle thoroughly. I remove my thumb and unscrew the main cap, letting the salt water flow back down into the red electrolosis chamber. I shake out a few extra drops and hit the button. Works every time. Hope this alternative method helps those of you who struggle with the thing.

After a year, I have no regrets save for the cost of the batteries. Still, this thing goes with me when I travel and backpack. It works great. Take two smaller bottles and drink one/disinfect the other. When I backpack, I'm without a carbon filter, which would remove most nasty tastes, and it's true, when properly dosed, one CAN taste a faint chlorine taste. (It's mostly a faint chlorine smell, but one need not beleager that point here.) Nonetheless, the water in my nalgene bottle isn't as neutral as store-bought mineral water. Oh well, I got over it. I never expected it anyway. I did expect to drink purified water and keep myself from getting sick, which I'm pleased to say has been my experience.

It seams that the MIOX is closed to a perfect product for me. Hiking in the Pyrenees or the Alps, as we normally do each summer, doesn't allow any unnecessary weight, so the MIOX is really good news.

However, what's a bit annoying is the fact that test strips have to be used, or has it? It's not only the price for the kit (test strips + salt, which is ridicules high â?“ more than $30 in Europe, but also the availability. There's only a few shops in Sweden, where I live, or in France, where I spend my vacations, where I can get this kit.

It's fine that any salt can be used but, as Tom earlier asked, is there any alternative to the test strips? Or, do I really need them?

Thank everyone so much for the great info. I am interested in purchasing a MIOX device and am glad to hear more of the pros and cons.

In regards to the battery cost issue: I might suggest navigating to the site www.surefire.com. They make great flashlights which also run off of CR123 lithium batteries. I highly recommend picking one up. While you are there, check out their Batteries section tab. For only $15, you can pick up a dozen batteries. That beats Walmart by about $3.75 per battery!

Jody,
It's possible that the water you were treating in another country was very contaminated and would require multiple doses. However, if that were the case, the extra chlorine from the multiple doses would be consumed, and the water should not have a bad taste. I suspect that the taste issues were related to the "low salt" fault. Contact MSR Customer Service at (800) 531-9531 and explain the situation to them. Also, if you forward your e-mail address to me at katie@miox.com, I can pass your name on to MSR's Product Specialist for some more detailed troubleshooting.
Katie

Tom,
The safety indicators are free chlorine test strips. They are set to measure a minimum threshold of chlorine based on the EPA Guide Standard & Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers. Note that once you test a particular water supply and establish the required dosage, you should not have to utilize the test strips again for that water supply, unless there is an event that could change the quality of the water supply, such as a rainstorm. Most waters will be adequately treated by a single dose of the purifier, but it is possible that some waters will require more than one dose. Thus, the use of the test strips on any "new" water supply will help you to determine the dosage level required for that particular water supply.
Katie

Dear Lempira,
I'm sorry you were experiencing such poor-tasting water with your purifier. As I told Jody, that may be related to the Low Salt fault, although it sounds like you found a way to overcome that. If you are willing to forward your e-mail address to me at katie@miox.com, we can ask some more specific questions to see if we can determine what's going on. When properly dosed, the purifier should not leave a bad taste in the water -- just a faint chlorine odor, as James mentions.
Katie

Peter,

In regards to your question involving use of the test strips, hopefully the stores in Europe will be more thoroughly stocked in the near future. They just began carrying the MSR MIOX Purifier recently and may not realize the benefit of the replacement kits. I will relay that information to MSR so they can encourage the stores in Europe to carry more replacement kits.

Note that a single dose delivered by the MSR MIOX Purifier will meet the treatment needs of most waters. The test strips are intended to be an added benefit, rather than a burden, for the user. The strips are designed to determine which waters may need more than the standard single dose, a determination that cannot be made with other disinfection technologies. For example, treatment instructions for some other technologies indicate 2 chlorine tablets or one chlorine dioxide tablet per liter of water. Chances are that this dosage will be adequate for most waters, but it is possible to come across a more contaminated water that would require a higher dosage level than what is indicated in the standard instructions for these other technologies. The user would have no way of determining if the standard dose is adequate with these other technologies. In contrast, the MSR MIOX Purifier is the only technology that gives you the option to determine if additional dosing is needed via the test strip, although a single dose with the MSR MIOX Purifier will usually be adequate, just as it is usually adequate with these other technologies. With the purifier, even without use of the strips, you still have a benefit over other disinfection technologies since the purifier has been proven to be effective against a wider range of micro-organisms and inactivates those organisms more rapidly.

In my own personal use of the purifier, I do not utilize the test strips every time I treat the water. Once a baseline is established for a particular water (i.e. you utilize the strips the first one or two times that you treat the water), you do not need to use the strips again, unless there is a major event that changes the quality of the water, such as a storm. If there is such an event, you can always double-check your required dosage with the strips again and re-establish your baseline treatment needs. In summary, the test strips enable the user to basically monitor the quality of the water source being treated, so they provide a benefit over other treatment technologies, which provide no way of monitoring the quality of the water source, but they do not have to be used every time you treat the water. For those who are more cautious about their water treatment, the strips just provide that extra measure of security.

Katie

I bought the Miox when it first came out and have had similar problems as a couple other people on this sight. The main problem is that the "low salt" light comes on no matter how many times I shake it. Another problem is that the lid is not sealing and the water will leak out by the time I'm done shaking it. The final problem is that even if I manage to get the lid tight enough to not leak water and I shake it the 20 or 30 shakes it takes to get a salt solution, I can never get the miox to produce a solution for 3-liters. I always get the "low salt" light.

I did call MSR today and I'm sending my miox back along w/ my dragonfly stove, which has had more problems than my failed marraige. Years ago I sent my Mini-works filter back w/ problems, this is my 6'th time sending my dragonfly back and now I have to send the miox back. I have also had to send back my MSR hydromedary bags since they were leaking profusely.

Today the MSR representative suggested that I send along a letter detailing my problems. However, I have written emails and letters and made phone calls to MSR and it is my experience that MSR is more interested in telling me what I need and want rather than actually LISTENING to what I need and want.

A quick mental inventory of all the MSR products I have purchased over the last 10 years comes to a total of about $828. I would think (and my thinking certainly could be flawed) that a company would pay attention to a patron like myself. But like I said... my thinking could be flawed here.

The reason I am posting my comments here is that I see an MSR rep giving some legitimate responses to the questions. So....

If MSR does not want me to switch to Camelback, Snow Peak, Primus and Sweet Water (some of which I have already switched to) It would be advisable to give me some reasonable answers and compensation to my questions and difficulties.

A disguntled customer,
Chad

P.S. please send a response to my email address: cdwayne2002@yahoo.com

I hae not seen any peer reviewed data on the effectiveness of MIOX on Cryptosoridium P. inactivation and at least two articles that says MIOX is ineffective.
http://www.waterquality.crc.org.au/hsarch/HS31j.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=154491&rendertype=abstract

If it is not effective against Crypto, then MIOX seems a bit costly and prone to failure compared to sodium hypochlorite. In addition the the weight of one battery of hypochlorite would treat more than 200 liters so weight should not be a factor.

Another clarification on the test strips -- they are measuring 4.0 to 5.0 ppm of free chlorine, + or - 0.5 ppm.

Chad,
I am getting in touch with Lisa Lange, Clean Water Specialist at MSR, regarding your difficulties. We will be in touch.
Katie

Dear John,

I would be happy to provide you with a copy of the study results from BioVir Laboratories, the qualified lab employing â??Good Laboratory Practices" that conducted the Purifier Protocol testing. Their tests included a battery of tests on inactivation of Cryptosporidium parvum in "Type II" water -- which has a higher turbidity, a colder temperature, and a higher pH -- all designed to present a more challenging environment for water purification. The MSR MIOX Purifier achieved at least a 4 log removal of oocysts (99.99%), while the requirement was only for a 3 log removal.

Both Cryptosporidium reports that you mention above are by Alexandra Keegan, et al. Our Ph.D. chemist reviewed the Keegan research and found it to be fatally flawed -- the researchers measured only the chlorine dose, rather than the chlorine residual. In contrast, the MSR MIOX Purifier instructions with use of the test strips are designed to measure a chlorine RESIDUAL of around 4-5 mg/L. The purifier instructions are based on the exact protocol followed by BioVir Laboratories and ensure that sufficient disinfectant is provided to overcome any background demand that might otherwise consume that disinfectant. This protocol ensures that there is enough disinfectant remaining to act against the Cryptosporidium. In the Keegan studies, they were likely trying to inactivate Cryptosporidium with zero chlorine because it had all been consumed by background demand. The research at Bio Vir was much better controlled. You can be assured that MSR would not make claims of Cryptosporidium inactivation unless those claims are backed by proper research.

I'm not quite sure I understand your statement about the weight of one battery of hypochlorite. I am assuming you are talking about hypochlorite tablets or drops? If so, the advantages of the use of a device like the MSR MIOX Purifier over chlorine tablets include:
-- superior inactivation capability,
-- a much more rapid inactivation (only 30 minutes for Giardia as compared to 4 hours for Giardia with chlorine tablets),
-- better-tasting water (apparently, as long as the Low Salt fault error is not an issue),
-- durability especially in wet environments where tablets can dissolve,
-- unlimited shelf life compared with a few weeks to several years shelf life for tablets, depending on the environmental conditions,
-- the ability to guarantee that the water is safe to drink via use of the safety indicator test strips, and
-- multiple use ability after the replacement of batteries and salt.

Tablets are a light-weight back-up for use of filters and will also readily inactivate viruses, which is the main shortcoming of a filter. Of course, you would then have the weight and volume of the filter in your pack in addition to the weight of the tablets. Use of tablets alone will also work for removal of viruses, bacteria, and Giardia, but with much longer wait times than required with the purifier and typically with worse-tasting water. There are pros and cons to each water treatment alternative available.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

Katie

Katie:

I'm inclined to purchase the Miox, but I did have a concern that hopefully someone can address relating to the O3 compound.

Earlier, you said that known or possible electrolytic reactions at the anode of the mixed-oxidant cell can result in O3 (Ozone). A friend who works as an industrial health specialist for NASA indicated that the third oxygen of O3 is highly reactive. At least in air, the third molecule acts like a free radical and really wants to attach to other molecules. Because of this, it will look for other molecules that are present, attach to them, and form new compounds which can possibly be toxic in and of itself.

I don't know if O3 reacts the same way in water as it does in air, so could you shed light on the impact of O3 compounds in Miox treated water?

(Sorry to rock the boat. It is probably nothing, but I'd really like to know.) Thanks!

As another user, let me share my opinion:

I saw the ad for the MSR MIOX in Backpacking magazine last summer while sitting in a hotel room in NYC during a business trip and ran down to the local EMS store during lunch the next day and picked one up. I played with it for a few days to get the hang of it.

Two weeks later I brought it on a several week backcountry trip into the Sierras. Of the group of about a dozen people I was traveling with, nobody had seen or heard of the MIOX before and most everyone was curious, if not a little suspicious.

By the end of the trip, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE swore they were buying one as soon as they got home. I never bothered using the test strips again after the first few days and I used a stuff-sack for a bivy I brought that had a really fine mesh screen in the material as a â??filterâ? to catch the floaties when filling a bottle before I dropped in the MIOX solution. It was a huge hit on this trip and worked flawlessly.

I never had any low salt problems, although it sure seems like I went through a lot of it. The only thing I noticed is that you had to use a ton of sample water to â??pre-wetâ? the salt. If the unit was bone dry and you dropped in some salt and then put in a water sample, the water seemed to disappear in the dry salt and didnâ??t amount to enough. Often I would immerse the salt side on the unit with water as well as put it in the sample side before screwing it (pre-shake) and that seemed to do the trick.

I usually clicked it to treat double the amount of water I was actually doing. The taste/smell didnâ??t bother anyone and I figured that being excessive was a on the safe side. Nobody ever got sick on our trip.

Fantastic product. If I were in the Peace Core Iâ??d buy a couple of these things before I left. I'm going on an extended India trip later this year and plan to bring it.

--Doug (San Francisco, CA)

I wanted to post a follow up report to my initial post about the MIOX. I earlier had to return a MIOX because of getting a "low salt" reading every time I tried to purify water. After a couple of uses, my new MIOX developed the same problem. I have however, found a way to make it work almost every time. It seems that the reason for the "low salt" reading is that when you fill the cell with water and shake it, not all of the water goes back into the cell. Low water = Low salt. I'm not sure exactly why this is. I have found though, that the following modification to the instructions will allow you to purify water every time:

1) Remove the end of the salt cap (just like you were going to add salt to the MIOX)
2) Fill the cap (with the salt in it) completely with water
3) Close the salt cap and shake
4) Remove the end of the salt cap again (same as in step 1). You should see the water in the salt cap.
5) Completely remove the salt cap from the MIOX.
6) Hit the buttom the appropriate number of times
7) Pour MIOX solution into water

By filling the salt chamber with water instead of filling the cell with water, you are creating more of a salt solution than you really need. Better to have too much than not enough. The excess salt water will pour over the sides of the cell when you remove the salt cap.....and the cell will be full of water. Thus, eliminating the "low salt" issue. Using this method, the MIOX has worked perfectly every time.

My only concern with the MIOX now is battery consumption. Whenever I used the MIOX to treat large volumes of water in cooler weather (35-45 degrees) I would get a "low battery" warning after just a few treatments. It does seem to improve dramatically in warmer weather though. This is not a major inconveniece to me, I'll just have to remember to carry more batteries in colder weather. I usually carry my Nikon N80 camera with me when I backpack. My camera just happens to use the same type of battery as the MIOX, so I'm usually carrying some spares anyway.

I have not noticed any bad taste to water that has been treated with the MIOX. It does have a sort of "flat" taste, but I find it entirely tolerable. It is MUCH better in my opinion that Chlorine or Iodine tablets.

I use the test strips only when testing a new water source (as Katie has said). The instructions call for using 2 test strips with each treatment. This seems a little excessive to me, but I guess MSR is just trying to avoid lawsuits.

Overall, I have very happy with the MIOX once I figured out how to work it. With the batteries, salt and test strips, it's probably more expensive to operate than other purification methods. But to me, not having to pump on filters or gag on purification tablets is worth the price tag.

Jason

Dear DBM,

As you stated, O3 is highly reactive, and in fact, if it is generated in the MIOX cell, it cannot co-exist with the chlorine generated for any longer than a few seconds. Separate studies conducted with chlorine and ozone (not using the MIOX solution) confirmed that ozone does indeed rapidly react. With the MIOX solution, we know only that whatever path the reaction takes, the resulting compound would have to be some other chlor-oxygen species.

Ultimately, when a municipality is treating the water supply with mixed oxidants, only the chlorine element of the mixed-oxidant solution is used to measure concentrations and to determine dosing requirements. Since the MIOX solution is primarily chlorine, this method works quite nicely. Note that MIOX Corporation has over 1200 capital equipment units installed with a combined treatment capacity of over 1 billion gallons of water per day. Our equipment is in 40 states and 25 countries and has been in operation for around 10 years. To date, we have not heard of any negative health consequences in contrast to chlorine from any populations using mixed oxidants.

I also suspect that any possible negative health consequence of using any disinfectant would be evident only after years and years of constant use. Remember that the MSR MIOX Purifier is designed for short-term use when purified water is not available. The user is attempting to protect himself or herself from waterborne pathogens like E. Coli and Giardia that can cause intestinal illnesses and severe discomfort in healthy individuals, and possibly death in individuals with compromised immune systems. Purification of water is designed to eliminate these viruses, bacteria, and protozoan cysts in order to protect the individual in the short term. Typically, when persons return from their camping trips, foreign vacations, or military deployments, they will return to their usual method of water consumption. In short, itâ??s most important to protect against waterborne pathogens in the short term, since those can cause immediate illness.

Hope this helps!

Katie

Jason,

Thank you for taking the time to come back and share your feedback on your replacement purifier. I'm glad that you're enjoying the product!

Katie

I've been using the MIOX for about 9 months now, and after reading previous posts, I'm a little suprized I haven't encountered any of the issues mentioned. I've never had the low salt problem, and I don't find the taste offensive at all. In fact the taste introduced by the MIOX solution does a great job of masking the odd tastes sometimes associated with drinking from plastic bladders or camelbacks.

I do a lot of winter mountaineering, so the MIOX gets a lot of time off this time of year as I melt snow for water, but the battery will act up in colder weather. If you're encountering this issue, spend a couple of bucks more and get lithium batteries. They cost more, but they're lighter, and will function properly in very cold environments. I think the energizer e-squared lithium CR123A runs about $6.

The bottom line is this unit is a perfect companion to my ultralight style.

I've been doing some research trying to compare the MSR MIOX system with the SteriPen which uses UV light instead of a chemical solution. Katie, do you have any information that would help me?

Dear Wayne,

I have a comparison table for individual use water purifiers that I will e-mail to you. I am familiar with the Steri-Pen, which uses UV light to inactivate microorganisms, as you stated.

I'd say the biggest disadvantage to the Steri-Pen in contrast to the MSR MIOX Purifier is its inability to treat water with particulate material, although the Steri-Pen functions fine in clear water. Note that the Steri-Pen was unable to pass the EPA Purifier Protocol in "Type II" cloudy water. Even minute material can impact its effectiveness, so the water basically has to be filtered before it can be treated with the Steri-Pen, requiring the use of a second treatment device. The MSR MIOX Purifier, on the other hand, is more versatile, because it is equally effective in any type of water, including a cloudier water source, and pre-filtration is not required.

Interestingly, UV works quite well against "resistant" organisms, like Cryptosporidium and Giardia, but it is not able to inactivate certain viruses, like the Adenovirus. (Viruses tend to be more of an issue in standing water than in running water.) Again, the MIOX Purifier offers more versatility than the Steri-Pen because it inactivates ALL classes of microorganisms.

In contrast, probably the biggest advantage to the Steri-Pen is that it is a more rapid process (1-1/2 minutes) to inactivate Giardia in 1/2 liter of water than required with the Purifier (30 minutes). The wait period is virtually the same for the more common bacteria and viruses -- 1-1/2 minutes for the Steri-Pen and under 5 minutes for the MIOX Purifier (based on the most recent round of third party testing).

Another factor to consider is the size of the treatment device. The Steri-Pen is much smaller and lighter than a handheld filtration pump, but it's still about twice as big and twice as heavy as the MIOX Purifier.

Also, the Steri-Pen is not designed to treat varying volumes of water. With one dose, the MIOX Purifier can treat a 1/2 liter bottle of water, a 2 liter CamelBak hydration bag, or a gallon jug -- this versatility is nice with a larger group of campers. Also, you can treat multiple quantities, wait the specified time, and have all of your containers of water ready to go at the same time with very little effort.

One last item I haven't mentioned yet is that the inclusion of the test strips enables the user of the MIOX Purifier to ensure that his water is safe to drink. Measuring a certain amount of residual disinfectant in the water shows that there is sufficient disinfectant to inactivate the microorganisms. In contrast, no other technology comes with the safety indicator strips. With other chemical disinfectants, if you're consuming water potentially contaminated by sewage flow, you have no idea if 2 tablets are going to be enough, or if you need more than 2 tablets. With the Steri-Pen you can't tell if you got all the microorganisms, or if one of them was hiding behind a particle in the water, thus making it unsafe to drink. Use of the safety indicator strips with the MIOX Purifier just gives an extra measure of security to the user, especially if he or she is drinking from a source that is potentially highly contaminated.

In summary, the MIOX Purifier is just a more versatile tool since it can treat clear or cloudy water, treats a wider range of microorganisms, is smaller and lighter, is configured to treat various volumes of water, and can ensure that the water is safe to drink. I haven't found the 30-minute wait time to be an issue because I always have multiple containers of water I'm drinking, so I have something immediately available. It usually takes me at least 30 minutes to accomplish whatever other task I'm doing while camping (or I'll treat the next day's water before going to bed), so I tend to not even notice the wait time required.

Hope this information helps!

Katie

I have a question for you Katie, in regards to the MSR MIOX system and its effectiveness against another water issue, helminthes.
With out any kind of filtration there is the high possibility and almost absolute likelihood that one will have some kind of helminth (larval or egg form) in a water supply. With my vast distaste for having a parasite infect my body that can cause much more damage to my body than most adenoviruses or certain bacteria for that matter; how does the MIOX system work against them?

Second I heard it was rumored that MSR was working on a very simple filter that could be used simply as one gathers the water out of the water supply as to strain out some of the particulate. Is that true or is there anything out there that you are aware of that would serve such a purpose?

Water purification is obviously not something that can be taken 'lightly' with the products on the market today, although there have been wonderful improvements in the technology this decade.

I'm amazed that many of the obvious problems aren't identified in the development phase prior to bringing the product to market. Just because the experts can make something work doesn't mean the average consumer is going to attain the same results, or understand the directions in the owners manuals without a college degree.

Unintentional contamination resulting from careless handling and/or a lack of thorough understanding of the equipment and operational procedures has ruined many a trip. How many times have you watched someone pump water and then put the dripping wet contaminated pickup hose in the same plastic bag as the pump discharge hose?

The bottom line is one has to be extremely thorough learning how to use any product, and one best not enter the back country without a backup plan.

Pack your water filter and take the instructions with you till you have developed confidence in the new generation products. Toss in a bottle of pills for a trip saver.

I think Steri-Pen is onto something but they still have a ways to go in developing a product that addresses likely user contamination issues, specifically raw water contacting the Nalgene bottle lip, threads, and sidewall above the clear water line.

The Pre-Filter/pen holder is a good idea but it needs to be separate from the purified water container.

No system is without its downside and there are tradeoffs in either system. First generation devices normally have some issues that result in unhappy customers as evidenced in the MIOX and Steri-Pen sour grape testaments above. Wait for the guinea pigs to field test the new technology, more often than not you'll be glad you did.

Dear Josh,

We have no data on the effectiveness of the MIOX mixed-oxidant solution on helminth eggs or other life stages, including tapeworms. According to the American Water Works Associationâ??s compendium on Waterborne Pathogens (AWWA M48), tapeworm is not a common waterborne pathogen except for in waters heavily contaminated with raw sewage. Tapeworm occurs mostly in waters containing pig waste and human fecal material from creatures already infected. Note that EPAâ??s Purifier Protocol does not require testing against helminthes â?“ only against bacteria, viruses, and protozoan cysts, the more common pathogens. The purifier meets the requirements for these three classes of organisms in EPAâ??s Purifier Protocol, including the protozoa Giardia and Cryptosporidium. Since there does not appear to be much data on any chemical inactivation of helminthes, if such organisms are known to present in the drinking water, removal via filtration or boiling is recommended.

As far as straining out the particulate material prior to use of the MIOX Purifier, there are several ways to accomplish this. One way is to simply let the water settle, but if the water is highly turbid, this may not be possible. The water can also be strained through a T-shirt or a coffee filter to remove particulate material. MSR also sells a strainer filter called the MSR MugMate that would serve nicely for removal of larger particulates (http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/mugmate.asp). Another option is the addition of a small amount of powder called â??alumâ? â?“ this can be purchased at your local grocery store in the baking aisle. One purifier owner said that he adds 1 tsp of alum for every 3 gallons of water treated. The solids settle to the bottom of the water container in about 10 minutes. Alum is actually used in municipal treatment for this same purpose.

Incidentally, MSR is indeed working on a post-filter as a stand-alone unit or for use with the MIOX Purifier, to be available in 2007. This post-filter will be rated for removal of bacteria and protozoa. At this point in time, to remove particulate matter prior to use of the MSR MIOX Purifier, one of the methods described above is probably the most viable option.

Katie

I'm wondering how the Miox works on heavy metals. I understand the carbon in the filters of the MiniWorks and other pump filters helps filter out heavy metals. I am worried because heavy metals can be very toxic and I think I'll stick with the MiniWorks if it gives me better protection.

Kathy wrote that the MSR MIOX is designed for short-term use, etc. (Her entire quote is below). If that's true, does that then mean that it would NOT be suitable for someone going to the Peace Corps, who might use it for two liters of water every day for two years? Similarly, would there be a problem if someone living in a village or even a city in Latin America or Asia used it as the primary way to purify their family's water day after day for years?

Bottled water is still much more expensive in those places than the 5-10cents/liter that this product would provide, but not if there are negative health results from using it year after year. Any info on this would be appreciated.

Alan
----------------------------------
Kathy's quote is reprinted below)
----------------------------------

I also suspect that any possible negative health consequence of using any disinfectant would be evident only after years and years of constant use. Remember that the MSR MIOX Purifier is designed for short-term use when purified water is not available. The user is attempting to protect himself or herself from waterborne pathogens like E. Coli and Giardia that can cause intestinal illnesses and severe discomfort in healthy individuals, and possibly death in individuals with compromised immune systems. Purification of water is designed to eliminate these viruses, bacteria, and protozoan cysts in order to protect the individual in the short term. Typically, when persons return from their camping trips, foreign vacations, or military deployments, they will return to their usual method of water consumption. In short, it�??s most important to protect against waterborne pathogens in the short term, since those can cause immediate illness.

Dear Mathew,

Heavy metals include lead, mercury, arsenic, and cadmium, amongst others. Some of these, like arsenic, may be naturally occurring in the water, but others are added by industrial waste contaminating the water supply. We can also be exposed to heavy metals through inhalation of air pollutants, exposure to contaminated soil, or consumption of contaminated food (such as fish containing high levels of mercury).

Neither the MSR MIOX Purifier NOR pump filters with carbon elements, like the MiniWorks, are effective at removing heavy metals. Note that ingestion of heavy metals is most harmful over the long-term since these substances build up in a person's system. Short-term exposure should not be detrimental, although that would depend on the level of contamination in the water. Removing these contaminants from the water typically requires multiple treatment steps using more advanced technologies. Since standard treatment devices, including filters, are not effective against heavy metals, it is best to avoid waters (and food and air) that may have been exposed to industrial waste.

Katie

Dear Alan,

For long-term use, you want to be more exacting in how you treat your water. The concern with using any chemical disinfectant for a long period of time is (1.) the potential exposure to high levels of the disinfectant residual itself and (2.) exposure to high levels of disinfection by-products (DBPs) that might result. Regarding the use of chlorine (the primary constituent of the mixed-oxidant solution), note that the EPA MANDATES a chlorine disinfectant residual of at least 0.2 mg/L in potable water supplies. For short-term use, the EPA also allows occasional high chlorine disinfectant and by-product levels, requiring only that the annual average values be under the limit.

In regard to your questions about the Peace Corps member and the Latin American family, it is difficult to give a precise answer, because the best treatment method is dependent on the quality of water being treated. The MSR MIOX Purifier instructions are designed to handle â??worst-caseâ? scenarios for the outdoor user, with the goal of creating potable water that is free of microbes. The dose applied by the MIOX Purifier is 5.5 mg/L of chlorine. If the water is a higher quality, this dose may be excessive, and further dilution of the dose would be appropriate. Due to the wide range of water conditions, the appropriate dosage would have to be determined individually for each water source.

The most thorough method of treating water is to combine filtration and chemical disinfection, which is similar to the process used by municipalities. If you want to guarantee removal of Cryptosporidium, there are two possibilities:
1.) Invest in a filter rated for removal of Cryptosporidium (< 1 micron), and then follow up with a reduced dose of the MIOX Purifier and a shorter wait time.
2.) Begin with the full 5.5 mg/L dose of the MIOX Purifier and wait the full 4 hours (perhaps treat the water before retiring each evening). Finish off treatment with a carbon filter to remove any excess chlorine and disinfection by-products.

Incidentally, I have been corresponding with a fellow in Brazil in exactly this situation. His tap water is contaminated by leaking sewage lines, and he wants to treat 10 liters per day for his family, while eliminating Cryptosporidium and minimizing formation of disinfection by-products. He already has a Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) filter. This individual is considering using the MIOX Purifier for initial treatment at the full dosage level, and then following up with the GAC filter to remove high levels of chlorine and DBPs from the treated water.

The main goal for long-term use is to adequately treat the water, while minimizing the amount of residual chlorine and disinfection by-products.

Katie

Hi--

I have been buying lithium CR123 batteries on line from Botach for years. Current price is $20.00 for 20 batteries, ie $1/apiece. Sometimes they even sell them for less

http://www.botac.com/sanyo1.html

I just found a relevant article about a municipal water plant in Kentucky: "To experience health effects from water with elevated chemical levels, a person would have to drink two liters daily for 70 years. The chemicals dissipate readily from water. They are removed when water is heated. For cold drinking water, or in making beverages with cold water, allowing the water container to sit uncovered at room temperature for several hours before refrigeration will allow much of the concentration to dissipate." (http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=3318349)

This is good news for those who are already waiting for 30 minutes or more to allow inactivation of microorganisms.

There is also a good EPA web site that offers more information on water treatment, for anyone who is interested: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/hfacts.html. According to the EPA site, negative effects might occur only after ingesting water with high levels of chemicals for "many years."

Thought this information might be valuable...

Katie

Great site, great discussion. Certainly convinced me that the MIOX Purifier is more a marketing program than contribution to water purification science.

Chlorine, as stated the main consituent of MIOX, has been around for years and is the primary method of treating municipal water, with filters for taste, clarity... In Vietnam, we had canned water, treated at a general facility, dropped into us in the field. When we didn't have that, we used Chlorine. I do not remember a person suffering from water borne disease as I do from air borne projectiles.

I traveled for 3 mo. in Africa several years ago getting sick only once...the day after I used a mechanical water filter. Went back to chlorine and after a few days recovery, all was fine. Scarf worked great for filtering particulate.

So I chose to skip all the batteries, salt, strips, mechanics, electronics and expense and stick to a chlorine solution. And just a bit of dry lemonaide for a change some times.

This is some great info and many thanks to all who have contributed!! I do have one question that many people have hinted at but not mentioned directly. What happens when you say double the dose of MIOX? Does it actually sterilze the solution twice as quick? Is this a surefire way to assure completely safe water? Will it effect the taste all that much?
Thanks to all who reply and it great to see a rep for the product actually answering questions (and trying to solve problems)!!!
Tod

I would like to thank you all for the discussion. It answered many of my questions. I just ordered my Miox and can't wait to try it!

WirelessDj

I bought a MSR MIOX purifier before a 5 day hike last summer. By day 3 after treating ~ 20 litres the replace battery battery light came on. I assumed the batteries that came with the unit were old. I used it last weekend on a canoe trip with new batteries and by day 3 again the replace battery light came on flashing initially, steady the next time. If I wait a while, I can use the unit for a few litres without the red replace battery light coming on. Even though the battery light comes on steady - the unit continues to function fine. Both times I had treated only about 20 litres of water. I understand the unit should treat 200 litres per set of batteries. The temperature was about 50-60ºF. Is this normal or should I send the unit for repairs ?

Dear Tod,

When inactivating micro-organisms, there is an inverse relationship between concentration of disinfectant required and time waited – in other words, the longer the wait time, the less disinfectant required, and the more disinfectant used, the shorter the wait time. However, with the purifier, we found that the wait time actually seemed to be a little more crucial than the dosage applied. I’d be uncomfortable recommending doubling the dosage and halving the wait time without having a third party laboratory perform the appropriate inactivation studies to confirm exactly what happens at varying doses and wait times. I also suspect that at double the dosage, the water would start to taste bad, especially if it was relatively clean water and very little chlorine was consumed.

On the other hand, if you are pre-treating with a filter smaller than 1 micron for removal of solids and protozoan cysts (Giardia and Crypto), you could probably reduce the post treatment MIOX dosage significantly – treat 2 liters with the 1 liter dose, for example. This would deliver approximately 2.75 mg/L of disinfectant to the water. The difficulty is that the safety indicator strips supplied with the purifier will not colorize, because they are set to colorize around 4 mg/L or so. Essentially, the instructions for the purifier and the inactivation verification tests upon which they were based assumed that no previous treatment had been applied, so we can’t state with certainty what will happen if you pre-treat the water and/or alter the dosage.

Note that if you suspect the water is poor quality and no test strips are handy to verify the chlorine residual, it is recommended to increase the dosage, just to be safe. Putting more chlorine in the water is definitely going to intensify the inactivation process, but without the proper studies, I can’t state by how much or how rapidly.

Thanks!

Katie

Dear Roy,

You are correct that your batteries should be lasting much longer. I double-checked with MSR, and they said it sounds like something else is going on with your purifier. Please contact the MSR Customer Service department at 1-800-531-9531. You can return your purifier to them for testing so they can determine the problem, and they will send out a replacement.

Thank you!

Katie

Katie, I've just had my Miox device 4 days ago, and I'm ready to post some considerations.
1)Miox and Katadyn MP1 tablets both remove Crypto. Just to be said.

2)I've tested both against 1lt of tap water at 17°C into separate glass bottles with 4hrs wait time: as far as taste is concerned MP1 is DEFINITELY the winner, having been judged so by 5 different friends of mine.
A similar test over bottled mineral water has led to similar results.
Must be kept into consideration also these concepts particularly "....When chlorine is added to water, some of the chlorine reacts first with organic materials
and metals in the water and is not available for disinfection (this is called the chlorine
demand of the water). The remaining chlorine concentration after the chlorine demand is
accounted for is called total chlorine. Total chlorine is further divided into: 1) the
amount of chlorine that has reacted with nitrates and is unavailable for disinfection which
is called combined chlorine and, 2) the free chlorine, which is the chlorine available to
inactivate disease-causing organisms, and thus a measure to determine the potability of
water."

3)I'm also victim of the "low salt issue" and I do confirm that putting the water into salt chamber solved.

4)Testing the water: I suspect that probably a way should exist to implement an electronic residual chlorine detector into Miox itself, showing via leds the OK, OK+ or LOW levels. I'll ask to my father, a retired Chemist manager for Bayer, if my suspects are well based.
See here. Price would increase for sure, thus it could be offered as an option. Yet it would be far more accurate than strips ;-)

5)It would be nice to implement built in rechargeable Li-Ion batteries or support for external ones. On my Surefire L6 torch I'm using these ones without any hassle (provided that L6 has inside digital circuitry to keep output stable).
Miox uses two 123 batts thus these would be (hypotetically) suitable. Note that one 168S substitutes two 123 batts.

Katie, do you know if Miox works on a timer basis or on a treatment compound readiness one?

Bottom line is that using rechargeable batts would have a positive effect on pollution ;-)

6)Even more urgent: Miox is designed to face also emergency situations, were current and batts would be unavailable. It would be really nice if a Solar Cell retrofit kit would be planned asap. I've one for my cell phone and it works great!

Hope this helps

Cheers from Italy

Katie,

Got the Miox, I have some technical questions:

what is the oxidation reduction potential (ORP) of one shot of the MSR Miox?
Is the MSR Miox solution acidic or alkaline?

Hi Katie,

I have just purchased a MIOX unit on ebay (waiting for it to arrive) and I was wondering if you would help answer a couple of questions:

1. Will the miox work with CR123 rechargable lithium batteries? These have a nominal voltage of 3.6V thus the total series voltage is 7.2V as opposed to the 6V in non rechargables. I purchased these for my 6P surefire but discovered that it blows bulbs on the higher voltage.

2. If the High Voltage circuit in the pen will not handle this 7.2V input I would like to crack the case and tinker (I'm an electrical engineer and am not worried about warranty). Don't suppose you'd email me a circuit to make life easier would you?

Warren

Warren, I've a M3 SF also with KL6 head. Would you please tell me where did you purchase your rechargables?
Thanks in advance

Katie,

Thanks for the great and even handed information. Far better than typical marketing. Kudos to you.

Dear Daniele,

Thanks for the comments! You are correct – both the chlorine dioxide MP1 tablets and the MIOX mixed oxidants are effective against Cryptosporidium, with the same wait time of 4 hours specified for both. (A shorter wait time of 30 minutes is specified for MIOX against Giardia, whereas the MP1 tablets do not distinguish between the wait time required for Cryptosporidium and Giardia, requiring 4 hours for all cystated organisms. Regardless, chlorine dioxide is a very good disinfectant.)

Note that the taste of chlorine would likely be MORE pronounced when treating either tap water or bottled water, in contrast to untreated water. The higher the “oxidant demand” of the water, the more disinfectant will be consumed, leaving less behind to create taste. (Also, a lot of bottled water seems to contain some other compound that reacts with chlorine to cause an unpleasant taste.) Though it IS possible to get a chlorine taste in treated raw water (I’ve experienced the same), it should be barely detectable at the proper doses.

Regarding the excerpt from the CDC, any chemical disinfectant, including chlorine dioxide and chlorine, will react with organic materials in the water. The remaining disinfectant is available to inactivate disease-causing organisms. If there is a lot of organic material in the water, the user would likely have to double dose, whether using MIOX mixed oxidants OR chlorine dioxide. What the CDC excerpt refers to as “chlorine demand” can also be referred to as “oxidant demand”, applicable to any type of oxidant, including chlorine dioxide.

You have an excellent suggestion regarding automation of the chlorine residual detector. We actually investigated such a scenario utilizing a microchip, but it would have doubled the cost of the product. The Palintest method is actually very similar to the test strips supplied, which also utilize a DPD colorimetric test reagent system, which is encapsulated on the pad on the test strip. The Palintest method is indeed more precise, but it would require carrying a bulkier piece of equipment, which would negate the streamlined lightweight effect of the purifier. If someone wishes to use an alternate chlorine test method at home, they can do so. The key is the 4 mg/L residual, which is what the “OK” color on the test strip pad indicates.

I’ve been getting a lot of questions about rechargeable batteries. We actually informally tested some of the 3.6V rechargeable batteries at the 4-liter dose setting, (which consumes energy more rapidly). The batteries were only able to treat 24 liters (i.e. 6 doses) before they had to be recharged. Thus, rechargeable batteries may be a practical alternative for a very short trip or home use of the purifier, but are not the best idea for outdoor / adventure use or multiple treatments.

In regard to your question regarding a timer basis vs. a treatment compound readiness basis, the purifier works by electrolyzing the brine until all of the salt is gone and the oxidant generated has reached a certain level of concentration. The time can vary depending on the dosage selected and how salty the brine solution is, which is dependent on how much the operator shook the purifier. Thus, the purifier functions on a treatment compound readiness basis, rather than a timer basis.

The solar cell retrofit kit is an interesting idea. It would need to incorporate some sort of storage device, such as a capacitor, since the purifier draws a lot of current when activated. I will pass the idea on to MSR! Note that for larger scale emergency relief applications, MIOX Corporation also offers a briefcase-sized BPS unit, which treats 12,000 gallons per day at the same dose as the purifier. This system retails for around $2500 and is not automated, so is not really suitable for individual use, but it makes an excellent emergency treatment system for larger scale applications and communities.

Thanks for all your commentary! I would love to visit Italy one of these days! :-)

Katie

Dear Wireless DJ,

I do not know what the ORP of the solution is – it can vary based on free available chlorine (FAC), pH, temperature, chloride concentration, total dissolved solids, and organic material present. Thus, we’ve never used ORP as a measurement for the purifier. We instead look at FAC – the purifier delivers a chlorine dose of 5.5 ppm, regardless of the treatment volume selected.
The pH of the solution can vary depending on how long the brine is electrolyzed, but it is always alkaline.

Katie

Dear Warren,

The MIOX unit will work with rechargeable batteries, but the batteries will not treat nearly as much water before they need to be recharged. We informally tested some 3.6V 580 mAh rechargeable batteries on the 4-liter setting, which consumes more power. The batteries lasted for 6 doses (24 liters) before the Low Battery light started to blink. The higher voltage did not adversely affect the circuit.

Hope this answers your question!

Katie

Katie, thanks for your feedback, first of all.
Then:
1)Rechargable batteries: please check 168A batteries here https://www.jsburlys.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=32

Here they are the technical data
Pila 168A Li-ion 3.7V 2000mAH
Weight: 45gr
Length: 68mm
Diameter: 19mm
Low self-discharge rate: around 2% per month at 20°C.
Re/discharge protection circuit : no need to discharge batteries before recharging. No "memory effect".
Long life-cycle: 500 recharging cycles
Safe recharge and discharge protection circuit.

One 168A replaces two 123 batteries. And 3.7V*2000mAh is far greater wattage than 7.2V*580mAh.
The question is: will Miox run with 3.7 (and lover) voltage? I guess so, but a feedback of yours would be appreciated.

2)Solar cell retrofit kit: imagine you're planning to go or that you live in a country where sunlight never lacks but batts do or cost too much (Italy i.e.). This kit would be a major upgrade in terms of long term costs and indipendence.

Cheers

Dear Daniele,

I’m sorry – I completely forgot to address your battery question! The 3.7V*2000mAh battery that you mention is too low a voltage – the minimum threshold is actually 4V. The Pila 168A battery will not work for several reasons:
1. The voltage is below the minimum threshold.
2. The solution generated is not adequate below this threshold.
3. The battery is too fat (and short) and thus won’t fit within the battery chamber.

Regarding the solar cell retrofit kit, I have passed your suggestion on to MSR. In which manner would you be most interested in utilizing solar energy?
1. On a short-term basis at your home during a disaster or emergency
2. While backpacking
3. While car camping
4. On a daily basis to treat the household water supply

A retrofit kit may make sense for the first use, but batteries would also work well and would probably last until the disaster had passed. If backpacking, I would imagine the solar contraption and capacitor would be too large to carry with you. If car camping, that might be a different story. If utilizing the purifier on a daily basis, it would make more sense to use the power source from your wall. There would be a number of other things I would recommend as well, such as incorporating filtration, or perhaps using a different technology altogether, like UV or Reverse Osmosis. Please let me know the particular application for which you’d use solar energy, and it may help MSR determine if it’s a project they’d like to pursue at some point. It seems like it makes the most sense for a car camping application.

Thanks!

Katie

After reading a lot about the MSR Miox purifier I bought one last week. I'll be using it for a hiking trip in France at the end of july. I've been testing it with tap water at home - to get the hang of it - and everthing works fine.

I've read there were some problems with water being stuck in de saltchamber. I had this 'problem' too, but is easily solved by wetting the salt in the saltchamber. This solution is also mentioned in the manual that comes with it.

If you think about this, it's just common sense: salt holds water. If salt is dry, it 'll certainly hold 1 ml of water. So, after making the salt wet, there were no problems at all anymore.

If the water still would become stuck for any other reason: just loosen the cap of the saltchamber a bit, then remove the cellcap. That way, you're taking advantage of our natural airpressure: the water will have no choice but to flow down ;-)

The taste is pretty neutral. It smells like a swimmingpool, but does not taste like it. So the claim that there's no annoying iodinetaste is justified.

If you think the chlorine smell is a problem: don't go hiking. You can't expect to go on some kind of survivaltrip and take all your daily luxuries with it. Or, don't use the Miox and get REAL sick... that's the other option :P

One remark I'd like to make is that it takes a 4 liter dose (4 clicks) to make the teststrips happy on 2l tap water!? Or my tap water contains a lot of wastes, or the dosage written in the manual was too optimistic. I never got sick of drinking this tap water without the MSR Miox tho.

Anyway. Bottomline is: this is a very well spent 150 EUR. Highly recommended!

Katie, I think the idea on the solar panel would be to recharge a set of rechargable batteries (optimally in the unit but externally would be a possibility too). There wouldn't need to be a cap, the battery would be trickle charged and would be full when needed. Something like a combination of these two items might work (no, I haven't verified that the output from the solar panel would be enough to power the charger):

iSun Portable Solar Charger $60
http://www.portablepoweronline.com/products/isun/Isun/product_iSun.htm

Rechargeable Battery Pack - 12 / 120 volt Charger w/ battery pack $84
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/212/sesent/00

Grrrrrr.... The battery pack I referenced above appears to be longer than 2 CR123As (hence the "body extending adapter" that's included for the flashlight it's made for) even though it replaces 2 CR123As. So unless a similar "extension" can be built (which shouldn't be too hard) for the MIOX, it won't work. I've seen references to other CR123A rechargers but so far haven't found a 2 bay battery charger with 12 volt input.

Hi Kate

Where to begin without the Two MIOX in my arsenal, back to lugging that old Katadyne Pocket filter with all the technicalities of that product and others of a similar pumping action. Gravity filters work well but are slow and the filter still needs to be cleaned or replaced, bin their done that and still do in the correct setting. As for that salt mixing chamber a bit awkward to use but it does work. I gave up on the salt chamber and now use a pre mixed saturated salt/water solution which is proof against freezing to aprox -15C contained in a One ounce dropper bottle. I add 8 to 10 drops of salt then top up with water and it self mixes, press the button and presto the nectar, the bottle will create up to 200 Four liter doses. One other point of order is how much stove fuel is saved not having to boil water to make it drinkable.

A few point to address

It seems that the if the unit is used continuously for say more than 30ltr of water the batteries warm up to quite a degree around 45 to 50c at which point the battery low indicator will start to blink if the batteries are not brand new. Allowing the batteries to cool seems to restore them to full working order. Using the batteries this way seem to limit them to about 160 liters give or take, suggestions or comments?

I have also created a filtered bladder using gravity and a 4 micron filter that is elevated above the settled turbid stuff, I treat the water and let gravity do its work 10 liters at a time give or take as the activity dictates. Is this enough filtering?
I would also like to know what the power requirements for the unit, how many milliamps of electricity are required to drive the unit to create the doses. I have been using a solar panel to drive the unit directly using good old Sol and it seems to work, the chamber bubbles, the test strips indicate the presents of the correct amount of solution after addition to the water but I am unsure if it is OK. The solar panel I use is 6/12 volt at 550 milliamps is this enough power?

After many many outdoor river, lake, occan, backpack, mountain, car camping trips I have yet to fall ill to disappointment.

Canada is a cold and friendly place

Harley

I will be taking a trip with 12 scouts and will use the Miox as my primary water purifier. Is there a simple way I could create a prefilter to remove the particulates prior to using the miox? I've looked at the Katadyn Base Camp, which uses gravity, but it uses a .3 micron filter and will get clogged quickly using cloudy water--however, I do like the gravity feed design though.

It seems to me if I could find a plastic bottle with a 1/2 inch nipple at each end that I could use to connect surgical tubing from a dirty water bag to feed into the bag I will use for the miox treatment. One could fill the plastic bottle with foam or the spun polyester that can be purchased in fabric stores for stuffing pillows. That would filter out the dirt, not get clogged quickly and be easy to replace the filter material.

Has anyone found a product that will do this or rigged up something like this?

Thanks for your help.

I will be taking a trip with 12 scouts and will use the Miox as my primary water purifier. Is there a simple way I could create a prefilter to remove the particulates prior to using the miox? I've looked at the Katadyn Base Camp, which uses gravity, but it uses a .3 micron filter and will get clogged quickly using cloudy water--however, I do like the gravity feed design though.

It seems to me if I could find a plastic bottle with a 1/2 inch nipple at each end that I could use to connect surgical tubing from a dirty water bag to feed into the bag I will use for the miox treatment. One could fill the plastic bottle with foam or the spun polyester that can be purchased in fabric stores for stuffing pillows. That would filter out the dirt, not get clogged quickly and be easy to replace the filter material.

Has anyone found a product that will do this or rigged up something like this?

Thanks for your help.

This is for Katie but anyone feel free to jump in.

Im going on a round the world trip through India, Africa, and Europe. I am very interested in the Miox, but from reading the above posts, it sounds like i could have a malfunctioning Miox in rural india and be in a bad situation. If you had to choose between the miox or the sweetwater system for reliability and the best protection against all the nasties, which would you buy? i think i know the answer, but i would like to hear some pros and cons, etc. thanks. this is an awsome review page.
Michael

Michael, if you want the ultimate in reliability, buy a) a ceramic-element water filter system like the MSR Waterworks or Miniworks, and b) use chemical purification tablets on the filtered water. The ceramic-element filters are field-repairable, and chemical purification tablets (whether iodine or chlorine) will handle any viruses and bacteria that make it through the filter. Iodine is available in handy tablet form and can be used to treat a lot of water if it's already been pre-filtered for oocysts and protozoans (e.g. 1 tablet for 4 gallons). Chlorine is widely available in the form of bleach, but the acidity of water affects that fairly seriously, but if that's all you can get, it certainly is better than not treating the water at all. Chlorine dioxide tablets are preferable for this application because they are less sensitive to the effects of water acidity, but are expensive and cannot be obtained in most of the world.

That said, while this is fairly reliable, it's also very tedious to pump water then let it sit for 30 minutes getting contact time in a sealed container with a germicidal agent. The MIOX system has one hard-to-find consumable -- the batteries. If you can carry a supply of batteries with you, the salt is easy to find pretty much anywhere. You'll have to decide for yourself whether the convenience of the MIOX system outweighs the drawbacks (keep in mind that you can keep an emergency stash of chlorine dioxide tablets around too in case the MIOX system burps).

In repy to Michael Spencer and Eric,

Every piece of equipment can fail. So, before using it in the field, try it out a lot when you're still at home. I've been extensively testing the MSR Miox for 3 weeks now. In that time I got proficient in handling it very fast and reliably, made sure I could drink not-so-good-looking rainwater and got a realistic idea on how long the batteries last. It also assured me that there's no production fault in it.

If everything goes well in the testing period, there's a big chance it'll work fine in the field too. Take enough batteries and salt according to your testresults at home and there you go.

If the Miox would fail you on a field trip you can always cook your water which should be as reliable, tho a little more of a hassle. Taking an extra waterfilter is an option, but takes extra weight and space. Tablets are convenient, but they don't kill everything, so I'd rather cook my water.

I did not use my Miox in the field yet (I will next week), so my opinion is formed on my testing experience at home, positive feedback from others that use it, positive independent reviews and trust in MSR and Miox. I'll make sure I put up a small report in august on the Miox when I'm back from France.

First off, I'm amazed to see this much participation from a Marketing Manager... kudos to you, Katie!!

For Katie, Harley, and others...

> Harley wrote:
> It seems that the if the unit is used continuously for say
> more than 30ltr of water the batteries warm up to quite a
> degree around 45 to 50c at which point the battery low
> indicator will start to blink if the batteries are not
> brand new.
>
> Allowing the batteries to cool seems to restore them to
> full working order. Using the batteries this way seem
> to limit them to about 160 liters give or take,
> suggestions or comments?

This isn't at all surprising. You're dealing with Lithium cells, which although vastly superior to carbon rod (ugh!!) "general purpose" or "alkaline" cells, _still_ have some measurable internal resistance. At the current draw required to force electrolysis of NaCl + H2O, you're likely looking at a "statistically significant" effect from that internal resistance, especially if you're doing 7x or more 4 litre runs in a row (per your example).

As you noticed, the effect of repeated runs in a row is threefold:
1) The cells heat up
2) The effective output voltage (VDC under operating load) is decreased
3) The overall mAh capacity of the cell (i.e., useable lifespan) is reduced

I have a feeling that the internals of those cells are significantly higher than 50C in spots.

Typically, lifespan testing of a product and its power source is done under optimal conditions. Katie might be able to speak to specifics, but I'd bet they're close to the following:
1) Cells and device at 20C (68F for those playing the home-game)
2) Duty-cycle "on" portion of no more than a "double dose" at capacity (i.e., 2x 4l run)
3) Duty-cycle "off" portion of a duration long enough to allow the cells and device to return to 20C.

For the person who was unhappy with the performance of the MIOX pen at 0C (32F) and slightly above... retry the test but this time, keep the MIOX pen inside your coat (i.e., near your body) until the actual treatment cycle occurs to keep it and the cells somewhere in the 20C to 30C range. I think you'll find that performance is vastly improved.

This bit of advice holds true for most anything involving chemistry-based stored power cells and cold climates. A conceptually-similar example would be "electrically-heated battery blankets" for automotive starter-battery applications in extremely cold climates.

Panasonic publishes some wonderful background data on the CR123A, including bench-test discharge curves, effective output voltages, etc..., but you'll note that they're using an optimized test methodology (duty cycle of 3sec @ 900mA draw, 27sec recovery). For what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that with the load-duration of the MIOX pen for even a single 2x 4l run, the cells would perform as well at 60C initial temperature.

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_Lithium_CR123A.pdf

*****

Katie, as Harley asked, would your company be willing to share a few bits of information?

* As stated, effective output voltage from the power source must be a minimum of 4.0VDC during operation of the MIOX pen.

Are you using a voltage divider, regulator, or similar device to force the supply side of the rest of the electronics to a specific voltage?

Would you be willing to disclose what the "optimal" effective output voltage from the power source would be for the MIOX pen? Is it closer to say, 4.5VDC +/- 10%? (range of 4.05VDC to 4.95VDC)

Would you be willing to disclose a current-draw curve for the MIOX pen including resting state (which I hope is very very close to 0.00 mA!), initial inrush current, and steady state operation current?

With this data, and a little bit of lathe-work, one could build an external power pack for the MIOX pen of arbitrary size/capacity/source, including things like Solar, Wind, etc.... It'd also allow for things like improved cooling for the power pack.

The externalization module itself would be a simple block shaped the same as a pair of CR123A cells stacked (Panasonic helpfully includes physical geometry), with a ruggedized "tail" which would exit through a modified tail-cap on the MIOX pen. This externalization module's style is quite common for other classes of devices... I had one from Quantum Instruments, Inc. (http://www.qtm.com/home/manuals/p240.htm) for my Amateur Radio handheld back in 1992 that looked like a normal slide-on battery pack. They've since phased out that particular product, but you get the idea.

If you wanted to get a bit more productized about it, you could release a retrofit kit:
1) Externalization module (fake cell-stack + tail)
2) replacement head/tail cap+strap

Additional nice-to-haves would be bundle kits with people like Quantum Instruments, Inc. or similar. Quantum's "Turbo Z" (http://www.qtm.com/battery/turboz_main.html) as an example is designed for devices requiring between 6VDC and 9VDC nominal output voltage.

Phew. Long post. For disclaimer's sake... I don't work for any of the companies referenced in this post, nor any of their parent/subsidiary companies. :-)

I have used my Miox for the last several camping trips and have been very happy with it. We are planning a hiking trip to Isle Royale NP next month and had planned to use it. However, their web site gives the following information about the water there:

"Drinking Water: Water not obtained from the spigots at Rock Harbor and Washington Creek campgrounds must be considered contaminated with the eggs of the Echinococcus granulosus tapeworm and other harmful bacteria. Boil water for two minutes, or filter through an adequate water filter (pore size of 0.4 microns or less). We recommend the purchase and use of water filters. One unit for each group of 5 or 6 will provide an adequate and safe water supply. Collect water with a pan and filter the cleaner water. Collapsible plastic jugs are very useful at campsites. Remember, it is unsafe to drink untreated Isle Royale water. Water treated with chemical tablets, such as chlorine, halazone, or iodine WILL NOT guarantee safe drinking water."

From this I take it from some tapeworm egg discussions previously, that the Miox will not provide adequate treatment of the water there. Is this correct?

John

Just back from a 3-week trip in Peru, where we relied entirely on our Miox. A few thoughts based on our experience that might be helpful to others...

"Low salt" indicator problem, resulting from water being trapped in the salt chamber: I experienced this problem the second time I tried it out at home. The problem, as several have observed, is caused by the brine solution not making its way back into the lower chamber after shaking. I found James' suggestion of adding the water to the salt chamber works, but occasionally the residual salty brine would find its way out (especially when the unit underwent large altitude changes). No big deal, but a little annoying. I tried Bram's suggestion of pre-wetting the salt, but didn't find that it worked reliably. After thinking about this for a while, the solution I came up with seemed pretty obvious, and we never had a problem after we adopted it. The trapping of some of the water in the upper chamber seems to result primarily from a surface-tension interaction with the screen separating the two chambers. There also may be some attraction to the salt crystals.

Solution: Add the water to the lower chamber and shake as instructed. However, end the aggitation process by making a short, sharp swing downward. This forces the brine solution through the screen and back out of the upper salt chamber.

Would I recommend this unit to others? Absolutely, but deciding whether it's the best solution for you depends on a number of things. There is no perfect water treatment method.

Plusses:
1) Reliable - We never had any problems with the unit or our health, and had plenty of water whenever we wanted.
2) Lightweight - Much less than the lightest pumps.
3) Little effort - Depending on your water needs, you may or may not view pumping as a chore.

Minuses:
1) A slight chlorine odor - It will never compete with clear mountain stream water.
2) A half-hour wait - If you can plan ahead, this isn't a hassle. If you want potable water in an instant, better plan on pumping.
3) Batteries and salt - Depends on your budget, how long you're gone for, how much water you need to treat, and whether you're going to be able to easily replace either item when you need to.

Wendell,

Thanks for the suggestions on a solar pack / rechargeable batteries. There are no plans for MSR to offer something like this commercially, but the data may be useful for anyone who wants to try to design their own power system. One suggestion is to use an external rechargeable battery on the order of the 7.2 volt power packs used for remote controlled cars. You would then need to make an adapter to fit it into the purifier. For more information on designing your own power pack, please see my reply to Phyxis below.

Thanks!

Katie

Harley,

I like your idea of pre-mixing the brine solution and carrying that in a dropper bottle. Theoretically, you wouldn’t even need the salt cap if you carried the dropper bottle. It’s really interesting to see the different ways in which everyone is using the product!

Regarding battery life, Phyxis’s comments from July 16th are correct. If you continuously operate the batteries, they will burn out more rapidly. During the battery life tests, the 1-liter and 4-liter doses were used, allowing 30 minutes rest in between doses. The purifier lasted for 224 to 245 liters, depending on the dosage option selected. If you start to get a low battery fault after continual use, you’ll often find that the batteries will still have a charge if you just allow them to rest.

Your gravity filter should work great for removal of solids in the water. If you are satisfied with the visible or aesthetic results of the water, than the filtering is sufficient. Just note that 1 micron is the minimum threshold for removal of protozoan cysts (Crypto and Giardia), so your MIOX Purifier, rather than the 4 micron filter, is what will be inactivating these micro-organisms.

Regarding your solar set-up, if you see the solution bubbling and you do not get a low salt or low battery fault, then the arrangement seems to be working. This is confirmed by the fact that the test strips are giving you an “OK” reading. Interestingly, this suggests that you are actually getting more than 550 milliamps out of your solar panel. Ideally, I would recommend something that doesn’t exceed 7.5 volts and that allows for up to 1800 milliamps. (Minimum voltage required is about 4 volts.) The higher milliamps are only necessary for saltier brine solutions, but with your pre-mixed brine, you’re assuring a consistent brine concentration, which would in turn mean a consistent amount of power being used. An ideal brine concentration is 60 g/L. Higher salinities will require the circuit to demand higher amperages for shorter periods of time.

Katie

Kent,

I ran your filtration idea by some of my associates. One person thought it would be a viable solution, and also liked the idea because it would be reusable. Another thought the polyester stuffing would have too large an interstitial spacing to achieve the effect you wish, and might create "channeling" where the water flow would tend to follow the same path, reducing the efficiency of the filter. I suppose the only way to verify this would be to actually set up the filter and give it a try.

There are several other alternatives to consider. Sweetwater offers an in-line filter called the Siltstopper. It is usually used with a handheld filtration pump, but it could be set up to gravity feed easily. You might also just use a simple coffee filter. Something that may be easier to handle than a paper filter is MSR’s “Mug Mate” (http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/mugmate.asp), designed to fit inside of a cup. A Mug Mate type of system would remove most visible particulate material, and you could either use it as a pre-filter before a finer filter, or you could just use it directly before the MIOX Purifier.

Another alternative is the addition of “alum”, a coagulant material used by municipal water plants that precipitates dissolved solids out of the water. The solids will settle at the bottom of your bucket within 15 minutes or so. You would then glean the clarified water from the top of the bucket into your treatment container, being careful not to disturb the solids on the bottom of the bucket. At that point, you would treat the water with your MIOX Purifier. You can pick up a little container of alum at your local grocery store in the spices aisle – it’s also used for pickling. You add 1/3 tsp. for every gallon of water.

Whatever you decide to do, I’d just try it at home first to make sure that the method works in the way in which you plan to use it!

Katie

Michael,

Let me list some pros and cons of the Sweetwater filtration system versus the MIOX Purifier.

FILTRATION:
Pros
--The water is instantly ready to drink after pumping and an additional 5 minutes’ wait time.
--The filter will remove particulates from the water.
--The filter contains only mechanical parts so is easy to repair in the field.
Cons
--Pumping takes more effort.
--Filters are prone to clogging (although a clogged filter can be cleaned in the field).
--Filtration must be followed by chemical treatment for removal of viruses. With the Sweetwater filter, this is accomplished by addition of the Sweetwater purifier solution, which requires an extra 5 minutes of wait time (viruses are easy to kill).
--The filter and purifier solution are much bulkier to carry (around 36.5 cubic inches and 14.6 ounces for a standard filter versus 5.2 cubic inches and 3.5 ounces for the purifier).

MIOX PURIFIER:
Pros
--The MSR MIOX Purifier accomplishes removal of viruses, bacteria, and protozoa all in one step.
--Operation is easier than pumping, and there is no such thing as “clogging” the purifier.
--The device is smaller and sleeker.
Cons
--A 30-minute wait time is required (or longer, if you want to be extra cautious regarding Cryptosporidium).
--If an electronic component on the purifier breaks, you may not be able to repair it in the field. However, the reliability record on the purifier has been excellent to date, with <1% of purifiers returned.

For a longer trip, I would always carry extra salt and a spare set of batteries as a back-up. Eric from July 13th has a good suggestion to carry some chlorine dioxide tablets as a double back-up. They provide better treatment than chlorine or iodine tablets.

Even if you do choose to carry back-up chlorine dioxide tablets, the purifier would still be less bulky than a filter and chemical disinfectant carried together. Basically, for me, it would boil down to a decision about how small a device you want, whether or not you mind pumping and possible clogging, and how crucial it is to be able to drink your water instantly after it’s treated. (You should be able to find replacement batteries in any store carrying camera supplies, but it would be easier to just have 1 or 2 spare sets on hand, depending on how long you’re going to be gone.)

Peter’s review on July 23rd summarized much the same pros and cons.

Thanks!

Katie

Dear Phyxis,

You are right on with all of your comments regarding temperature and duty cycle. In our battery life tests, we tested the batteries at the 1 liter and 1 gallon doses, allowing a 30-minute rest period between each dose. When the low battery light first starts to blink, the user can typically get several more cycles out of the purifier if he or she allows it to rest for a while.

You requested some information for those who may want to design their own external power pack. Here are the answers to your questions.
1. The purifier uses a voltage regulator.
2. The “optimal” voltage is 5.5 – 6 VDC.
3. The resting rate is on the order of .02 amps or less. The purifier utilizes a resistive circuit so there is not much of an inrush; however, the initial current can be as high as 2.5 amps for very salty solutions. The steady state current is entirely dependent on the salinity and battery voltage.

When using a premixed brine of 60 g/L of salt, the amperage won’t exceed 1.8 amps. When using a lower brine concentration, a low salt fault may occur in some circumstances (temperature, dose size, water source, etc).

I hope this information is of use. Thanks for all of the detailed data for those interested in battery life, solar power, and rechargeable power sources!

Katie

John,

You are correct. We've never tested MIOX against tapeworm eggs, so I would be sure to filter or boil the water at Isle Royale, just to be safe. As a point of reference, helminthes (tapeworm eggs) will be removed by a 25 micron filter, while protozoa like Cryptosporidium and Giardia require a 1 micron filter. Bacteria is removed by a 0.2 micron filter, and viruses require chemical disinfection for inactivation. The standard handheld water filtration pumps like the Miniworks and Sweetwater are typically rated for removal of bacteria (i.e. they are < 0.2 micron). Hopefully, that will give you a little more information so you can determine what to bring on this trip.

I hope you have a great time! I keep hearing about Isle Royale -- I'll have to go there one day!

Katie

Hi - Re the mention of ordinary coffee filters for filtration of sediment etc., and the microns of filtration required for various nasties, tapeworm eggs etc - what micron filtration do normal supermarket paper coffee filters have? Also, I'm still unsure of the advantage of using the Miox over the simple use of Chlorine Dioxide tablets and basic manual filtration(like through a fine t-shirt)to get rid of larger sediments and eggs etc. Are there some nasties that Chlorine Dioxide tabs don't get rid of that the Miox does? Or put another way, if I use Chlorine Dioxide tablets, what level of filtration do I then need to equal the protection that Miox provides?
Kevin from Australia

Hi Katie -- I will be travelling to India and spending some time there. How effective is the MIOX on what I am likely to find in the water there? Thanking you in advance for help. mayla

Katie-

Awesome info!

For future reference for those considering this sort of external power option:

Even a "tiny" VRLA gel-cell (Valve-regulated Lead-Acid) such as the Panasonic LC-R061R3P (06 VDC nominal, 1.3Ah @ 20h rate) weighing in at 0.7lbs would give you a continuous run-time of almost 30 minutes _sustained_ at 1.8A (i.e., 100% duty-cycle) ... meaning you could get quite a bit of brine prepared under full-emergency mass-consumer circumstances (e.g. earthquake, etc...) and even more brine under less demanding duty-cycles even if your renewable source (e.g., Solar) were unavailable for a long period of time. ;-)

-Phyxis

Back from France, Auvergne. The hike was pretty impressive, tho physically demanding (especially with the 20 kg weight on my back).

I used de MSR Miox quite a lot. Worked great! These are my findings and remarks on the field use of the Miox:

* I always tried to wait 4 hours before drinking Miox-treated water, because there were a lot of wild cows grazing on the mountainhills (increased chance of Cryptosporidium), especially in the lower regions. I risked drinking water in higher regions after 1 hour. The amount of faeces surrounding the watersource was a good indication.

* I found the teststrips to be very important: the amount of Miox-solution needed, varied a lot between the different sources of water. In some cases it was necessary to treat 1 liter clear-looking water with a 3 liter Miox-solution. One thing to note is that water in need of a higher Miox-dosage was located in the lower regions where more animals (read: cows) were active. Water coming right out of the rocks in higher regions needed a normal dose. Nevertheless I'd always recommend the usage of teststrips, even when weatherconditions don't change.

* I noticed that there was more water stuck in the saltchamber in the field than when tested at home with tapwater. It helped to loosen the saltcap a bit, before unscrewing the cellchamber.

* I used one new pair of Duracell Lithium CR123A M3, and purified about 50 liters of water. The batteries are far from empty.

* I used about 1/4 of the salt provided, as stated in the manual for the amount of water I purified.

* The taste of the water was allright. Of course there's the chlorine-odour, but that certainly doesn't weigh up to the advantages of the Miox. Mixing the water with Isostar tablets is a great way to improve smell and taste if you like.

* One remark concerning the build of the Miox is that I'd rather have an aluminium (or some other metal) cell- and saltcap. I noticed that the countless screwing/unscrewing is showing stress on the plastic threads.

Greetings,

Bram
Belgium

Since the miox relies on a brine solution, is it possible to use it to desalinize salt water? If so, would the procedure be any different?

> Since the miox relies on a brine solution, is it possible to
> use it to desalinize salt water? If so, would the procedure
> be any different?

The MIOX system doesn't remove anything from the treated water... it adds Sodium, Chlorine, and various combinations of it and the source water (primarily Hydrogen and Oxygen) using electrolysis.

The most efficient desalinization I can think of is reverse-osmosis, whose tradeoff is that it is resource (physical effort or energy) intensive and inefficient (requires a steady outflow of bypassed source water).

To Phyxis - If you're after a handheld pump device for desalinating salt water into fresh water the best option is a thing called the Pur Survivor 6, which cruising yachties carry for emergencies. Fair bit bigger than the Miox and good for building arm muscles, but it works well and has saved many a life at sea. It's a reverse osmosis system. Kevin Casey, author of Australian Bush Survival Skills

Kevin:

Although I'm not personally in need of one at the moment, the info is quite useful for future reference. FWIW, it looks like "PuR", f/k/a "Recovery Engineering, Inc." sold off the Marine R/O division to Katadyn North America, Inc. ... the hand-powered units are now:

Katadyn Survivor-06 (890ml/hr @ 30spm) MSRP US$750.00 Street ~US$550.00
http://www.katadyn.com/site/us/home/marine/ou_products/survivor06/

Katadyn Survivor-35 (4500ml/hr @ 30spm) MSRP US$1895.00
http://www.katadyn.com/site/us/home/marine/ou_products/survivor__35/

They're using an interesting high pressure (800psi quoted) partial bypass technique, but don't disclose what the input (sea water) to output (fresh water + waste).

Notes:
* Use with water containing particulates larger than 5 micron may significantly reduce the useable lifespan of an R/O unit.
* Use of R/O without near-immediate consumption of the fresh water produced significantly increases the risk of bacterial contamination.
* Neither MIOX, nor R/O can neutralize certain classes of contaminants (organic compounds, etc...).
* R/O units (even small, hand-powered ones) are in an entirely different price bracket than the MIOX pen. ;-)

Combining a turbidity reduction step (Alum, as Katie suggested?) the R/O unit (desalinization, sub-0.0005 micron filtration, etc...) with a collapsible container of known size (so you don't have to drink it as produced) and a MIOX pen (so you can perform late-stage disinfection just prior to consumption) would be a pretty nice survival set.

Now... about those things that combination may not remove:
* Organic Compounds
* Heavy Metals (I've heard horror stories of R/O membrane damage)
* Solvents
* ?
* Little Billy putting his grubby hands in the fresh water container ;-)

-Phyxis

Forgot one nasty thing: Free Cl- ions in the source water will quickly destroy most R/O membrane materials. :-/

Dear Kevin,

Coffee filters appear to be < 20 microns. Here is a quote from http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/03-html/3-4.html: “?Look at a common coffee filter. It filters out particles larger than ten to fifteen microns.” Here is another site (http://www.dccoffeeproducts.com/water_filtration.html) that states “The recommended micron size of a sediment filter for brewing equipment is in the 5-20 micron range.” However, I would double-check with the manufacturer to confirm the exact micron size of any filter you may end up using.

Regarding MIOX vs. ClO2 tablets:
 Wait Time – ClO2 tablets are an effective disinfectant, killing all classes of organisms, but are rated for 4 hours for removal of Giardia versus the MIOX Purifier’s 30 minute rating.
 Shelf Life – tablets have a limited shelf life vs. an infinite shelf life for the MIOX Purifier (with 7-10 years for the batteries).
 Waterproof – the MIOX Purifier is waterproof, but tablets will dissolve if accidentally gotten wet.
 Guaranteed Potability – you cannot use a purity indicator strip with tablets to determine how much disinfectant is needed for different water sources.
 Lifecycle Cost – tablets are a one-time use, so depending on how much water you plan to purify over the course of several years, they could end up costing you more. MicroPur sells for about $14 for 30 tablets, and 1 tablet is required per liter. This means that it costs about $0.47 to treat 1 liter of water with the ClO2 tablet, no matter how many liters you treat. With the MSR MIOX Purifier, the initial cost is higher, but your only ongoing cost of operations is replacement of the batteries. (Each set of batteries will last for around 200 liters of treatment.) The breakeven point in cost for the MIOX Purifier versus ClO2 tablets is right around 300 liters of water treatment.

On the other hand, chlorine dioxide tablets are a cheaper initial purchase and will sometimes leave the water tasting better. (For more on ClO2 tablets, see my post from Dec. 15, 2004.)

Note that neither the MIOX technology nor the ClO2 tablets provide filtration, so if there is sedimentation in your water source, you would need to use some sort of basic filtration with either technology.

Thanks!

Katie

Dear Mayla,

The purifier will be effective against all classes of viruses, bacteria, and protozoan cysts. There is a less common fourth category of organism called a “helminth,” which is basically an egg or larval form. Upon reviewing the internet, the possibility of encountering a helminth in India does exist. Helminthes can be waterborne or ingested through food. The safest route for your water treatment would be to combine technologies –- either (1.) boil your water, or (2.) filter your water and then apply a disinfectant using the MIOX Purifier or chlorine. If you choose to use the MIOX Purifier, you only need to find a filtration technique that is finer that 25 microns, since helminthes can be removed by a 25-micron filter. They also seem to be fairly regional, so you may be able to find out more about the particular region(s) where you’ll be staying.

Thanks!

Katie

Dear Garya,

Phyxis is correct – the MIOX Purifier will actually ADD a slight amount of sodium and chloride to the water. The most common way of desalinating water is through reverse osmosis (RO). Incidentally, MIOX is developing a handheld RO device that will be relatively small, lightweight, efficient, and easier to operate than other devices on the market. However, this is still in the early stages of R&D, and it will likely be several years before we have a commercial product available.

In response to Physix’s comments, use of a pre-filter to remove larger particles can significantly extend the usability of an RO unit. If you plan to store any of the water for any period of time, in order to prevent recontamination, you could always treat the desalinated water with a device like the MIOX Purifier to add a disinfectant residual.

Conventional thought is that chlorinated water (or Cl-) will destroy an RO membrane. However, tests were conducted at a Bureau of Reclamation facility in Yuma, Arizona, that proved otherwise. In these tests, the Bureau of Reclamation found that polyamide and cellulose acetate RO membranes were NOT sensitive to either traditional chlorine or the MIOX mixed oxidants as long as there was no iron present in the feedwater. It is difficult to define exactly what form of iron causes the negative reaction, but the tests did show that it is possible to pass pre-chlorinated water through an RO membrane without damaging the membrane.

Katie

Hi Katie

The Information is helpful and appreciated. Thanks everyone

As for the solar power I have been using I miss quoted the power output of the panel
Its 6/12 VDC at 25 watts @ 1.7mamp I have a voltage converter to change the voltage to 6 VDC, as a side note the latest solar panels are capable of generating the voltage/Amp even on a cloudy day.
And you are correct I have removed the salt mixing chamber and just use the 1 oz dropper with the per mixed salt/water solution mixed at about 150 g/L so I will now change to the 60 g/L salt solution which as you explained allows for a standard concentration and thus eliminates the fluctuations and higher Ampage required for the solution to be created.
I also will attune the amount of water I MIOX at one time and give the batteries time to recover between doses at the four liter amount. The thing of it is I was using the MIOX to keep my 20ltr water dispenser sanitized as part of the regular maintenance ensuring the city water I was refilling the bottle with was good to go thus the multiple doses of MIOX.

Thanks all
Harley
Canada is a Cold and friendly place

This technology is really really interesting.. i have just bought a Katadyn Combi (its a ceramic 0.2 micron filter) its supposed to be good for 50 000 litres of water, assuming youre not filtering mud. the question i have about the msr /miox is wether or not the free radicals or ozone compounds that you are talking about will be filtered out by an activated charcoal filter (such as the one in the combi) adequately for long term use.. i realize the miox is good for short term survival and medium extended trips to places with bad water, and i trust it works well, after all you dont even need a college degree (as someone said you did) to understand it. grade nine science tells us that NaCl "table salt" has some chlorine in it that you splitting away from the sodium with a small electrical current, the microprocessor knowing when a concentrated enough solution is produced is the real magic, that maybee involves a college degree. keeping the brine solution to the brim of the reactor cell is childs play. my other question is.. what are the electrodes made of?

ohh and its awfully nice to see a rep that is so knowledgeable and patient.

p.s. Canada really is a cold and friendly place :)

All,

I have heard several of you discussing battery prices, and I have the solution for you. I use SureFire flashlights, and they use the CR-123 battery. Surefire recognized early on that they would never sell flashlights with batteries that cost $10, so they began making their own batteries. They are IDENTICAl to the CR-123, but they call the SF-123's. I believe these batteries are contracted through Duracell, but I am not 100% certain on that. I am certain, however, that they are the same batteries. Anyway, they are $1.25 a piece. You can order boxes of 12 off of SureFire.com. I like having the same batteries for my flashlights and the MIOX. I hope this helps save everybody some cash.

Also, (as referenced earlier), these batteries have a 10 year shelf-life. No worries about storage. They will perform just fine when it's cold, so if you're winter camping you should feel comfortable using these batteries. (Proven in Boundary Waters, MN during Jan/Feb).

--Junior.

Here is a question for you! In the wake of the recent hurricane that has caused so many problems in LA, MS, and AL. We have some unit members that have family in the areas affected. I am curious if the MiOx, could be useful in this situation. While it is apparent that it will disenfect the water and make it potable, what about water that has petroleum contaminants in it (like the oils/fuel that is floating on the surface)? Can you use the water that is below the water line (say a couple inches down) then treat it with the MiOx, or would you need to use some type of mechanical filtering? Depending on the answers to this, I might have to get one, since we are a hour north of Panama City Beach, FL down here! Thanks!
dc

Hi everyone, I'm looking for water purification systems and this looks like a nice backup.

First a question, has anyone tried non-iodized (Kosher) salt and if so does it reduce the chances of a bad or odd taste?

Second a comment on batteries. As Junior stated CR123 batteries can be had for as low as $1/pc online. There are an ever increasing number of flashlights that use these batteries (they offer one of the highest energy densities avaialable for you ultra light packers). In addition to surefire.com there is amondotech.com and batterystation.com to name a few.

Jon

Dear Jon (from Aug 27, '05),

I believe that you are referring to an activated carbon filter (rather than charcoal). Activated carbon will indeed filter out chlorine and other oxidants, including the MIOX solution. If you want to use your filter post-MIOX treatment, it would remove any taste problems, plus you wouldn’t have to wait very long at all with the MIOX since the 0.2 micron filter will take out bacteria and protozoa as well.

In response to your other question, the electrodes are titanium with proprietary catalytic coatings.

Thanks!

Katie

David,
The MIOX Purifier is not effective against petroleum contaminants, which tend to float on the surface. Taking water from below the surface is the best idea for treatment, and would eliminate the majority of petroleum contaminants. However, without tests, it's very difficult to say just how contaminated the water may be below the surface. It depends on many factors such as the exact nature and amount of contaminant floating on top of the water, the water pH, temperature, degree of emulsification, amount of mixing and agitation, length of time the contamination has been there, amount of water present (the dilution factor), etc.

Even if there is contamination below the surface, ingestion of these types of contaminants would likely be acceptable as long as it was on a short-term basis. The majority of these contaminants (as a general rule) tend to be more “chronic” toxins than “acute” (meaning that they tend to be more dangerous with longer-term consumption of many years than with short-term consumption). In the short term, the most important thing is to stay hydrated.
Still, it is best, if at all possible, to add some additional filtration to the MIOX Purifier for this type of use. The best overall choice would be some activated carbon filtration. Any form of activated carbon you could find would be helpful – a good example would be the MSR Miniworks handpump to filter the water first, followed by treatment with the MIOX Purifier. A one-two punch of the Miniworks and MIOX Purifier would be amazingly effective at treating for a wide spectrum of possible contaminants after a disaster.

Note that there are a few specialty media specifically for handling petroleum contaminants, but they would be nearly impossible to get at a retail level, so the combination of filtration and purification would be the best bet for your situation.

Katie

Dear Jon Edwards (from Sept 1, '05),

It is acceptable to use non-iodized (Kosher) salt with the purifier, but I have never done so personally. However, I suspect that any poor taste in the treated water, including the taste of chlorine, actually has more to do with the water make-up than with the salt itself.

For example, if you are treating really clean water, very little of the oxidant will be consumed, which may leave somewhat of a chlorine taste in the treated water. If you have water with ammonia in it, the chlorine tends to bind up with the ammonia. It still works as a disinfectant, but it tends to make the water taste much worse. Oddly, the solution to this dilemma tends to be to add MORE chlorine, which will oxidize all the ammonia and usually make the water taste better. I’ve never bothered personally experimenting with my treated water in this case, because it was either free of taste altogether, or at least palatable, even if I noticed a chlorine taste.

In short, there are sometimes certain substances in the water that react negatively with the chlorine disinfectant to cause taste problems. This is based on the water supply and can vary widely from region to region even within a particular state. Note that taste tests at our lab on bottled water would almost always result in poor-tasting water, even at lower chlorine doses, while the same dose applied to tap water or distilled water left no taste at all. In fact, most people could not differentiate between the treated and untreated waters with the tap water or distilled water. I’ve had the same experience with streams, springs, and lake waters.

The unit Katie was referring to:

Mountain Safety Research (MSR) MiniWorks EX.

http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/miniworks_ex.asp

I'd personally toss a much cheaper activated carbon granule (-only-) prefilter on before running the water through the MiniWorks (or equivalent), to keep the physical contaminant level low on the more pricey MiniWorks activated carbon/ceramic filter.

*****

If you have large amounts of money to throw at the problem of petroleum distillate contamination, you could give these folks a call...

http://www.vsep.com/

http://www.vsep.com/pdf/ProducedWater.pdf

The net-net of it is, activated carbon granule filtration will work, but it typically isn't terribly efficient because the granules end up getting coated (and rendered ineffective). Agitation might help to a degree in keeping the individual granules useable, and in combination with aeration/oxygenation would remove VOCs as well.

The best solution out there is chemical pre-treatment, nano-filtration with agitation, chemical post-treatment, and reverse-osmosis filtration with agitation (combined, and in that order). V*SEP is also rated on ROI based upon 23 Million gallons per year. ;-)

*****

Also, agitation/oxygenation of the final potable water by leaving an air gap at the top of the water container and agitating the water enough to cause cavitation or similar, then allowing the water to stand for a while should nix some of the chlorine taste, no? (yikes, long sentence!!)

I think I might be stopping off at REI this weekend to test this theory... I need to pick up a MIOX pen anyhow. ;-)

Katie,

Great information. Thanks! I've had the MIOX pen for a while, but haven't gotten around to playing with it yet. This discussion has been very helpful. My question is: can I make the solution ahead of time and simply use it to treat my water? How long would the solution keep? A one once bottle (or so) of solution would be a nice backup rather than carrying some other tablets.

Thom

> My question is:
> Can I make the solution ahead of time and simply use it
> to treat my water?

No... the most effective concentration of mixed oxidants is inversely proportional to how much time has passed since it was prepared. What you are producing with the MIOX pen is similar to what a drinking-water purification plant generates using a single-disinfectant (e.g., Chlorine) "on-site halogen generator" process (NaCl + H20 + electricity). The MIOX pen relies on a known volume (sealed water container) and defined minimum primary exposure times (based on your target organism of choice), whereas drinking-water plants rely on flow rates and disinfectant concentration adjustments to control effective primary exposure time. Both systems leave a small amount of free Chlorine as a residual disinfectant, and both are sensitive to changes in the source-water supply which may require adjustments to the amount of disinfectant per litre per minute of exposure.

> How long would the solution keep?

Reply hazy, see above. The answer on how quickly the solution loses potency depends on how it is transported, what material the container it is stored in is made of, etc....

If you want something you can carry without generating onsite, use one of:
* crystalline iodine
* sodium hypochlorite (-plain- household liquid bleach)
* calcium hypochlorite granules (also known as pool chlorine)
* water purification tablets (iodine or chlorine based)

*****

I've been discussing more thorough water filtration+purification techniques to handle worst-case scenario (say, the water on the streets of New Orleans a short while ago) with a friend who has a much better microbio background than I do. ;-)

It'd involve a combination of:

* pretreatment (chelating agent / floculant such as alum) in a fixed-location container, to allow for standing water conditions

* mid-level skimming, avoiding both the top most layer (residual petroleum distillates) and bottom most layer (a syrupy goo formed by alum + organic compounds) of the standing water

* prefiltration using high-surface-area "cheap" filter material, to reduce turbidity entering the filter itself

* aeration to reduce the VOC content

* primary filtration using a high efficiency filter such as the MSR MiniWorks EX

* primary disinfection using the MSR MIOX pen

... then go from there as appropriate.

Note you'll still have to contend with endospores, which are pretty tough to stop without things like high-intensity UV disinfection or sub-0.2 micron (absolute pore size) filtration.

Another option is to inactivate them using crystalline iodine, but then you'll have to contend with either the taste of the iodine, or another floculation/filtration cycle to reduce it. Subsequent inactivation of the iodine with things like ascorbic acid will apparently nix most of its ability to inactivate endospores.

Phyxis,

Thanks for the response; your information helps a lot.

Thom

A little more insight on how long the MIOX solution keeps...

The chlorine concentration will stay constant for about 9 days or so, providing that it is properly stored. ("Properly stored" means in an opaque container with the lid on. The idea is to prevent it from being exposed to sunlight, which breaks down chlorine.) The "other oxidant" component that provides for the stronger disinfection capability will last only about 2 days or so.

Theoretically, you could generate oxidant in advance, but I agree with Physix -- a better back-up would be either a spare set of batteries and more salt, or a tablet disinfectant. A concern with generating the solution in advance would be the fact that the volume of solution is so small that it would be difficult to transport and dose appropriately. As Physix mentioned, you could also run into storage container issues.

In summary, it's best to use the solution as soon as it's generated, which also fits with the design of the purifier...if you want an emergency back-up, keep a small number of disinfectant tablets on hand.

I just wanted everyone to know that I absolutely LOVE my new Miox. It works perfectly (after following some of the helpful tips on this thread) and is one cool device. I was skeptical at first found this website and really appreciated everyones input. Especially Katie's. Thanks!

Katie,

Thanks for your response. I think that the MIOX device is truly amazing, and after reading this thread, I have confidence that it works as advertised. Also from reading this thread, I think you should consider a minor design change: make the salt storage cap into a salt/water mixing container. Add salt until it reaches line "A", add water until it reaches line "B", shake until the salt dissolves then pour the solution into the reaction chamber. Of course line "A" and "B" would give you the 60grams/liter ratio you suggested and would eliminate most of the problems people have encountered using the device.

Thanks again,

Thom

All,

Just bought a MIOX as part of my disaster preparedness plans. Received it last night and it looks even more impressive and portable than it did in the pictures.

I'm confused about one point, and was hoping someone could help me before I begin playing with it this weekend. The instructions say to fill the salt chamber 2/3 full and that the salt provided will treat 200 liters of water. Well, looking at the size of the chamber and the small baggie of salt provided, I would guess I could fill that chamber 2/3 full about 2-3 times before I would exhaust the salt supply. What am I missing here? Does a lot of the salt remain undisolved and are you supposed to leave it in the chamber or throw it out between usages? In other words, I don't see any way to fill it 2/3 full each time and make that small amount of salt go the distance. Can I expect a lot of wet, undisolved salt in the chamber after mixing? Do you just leave it in there until the next use? I don't see any discussion about this issue and some additional salt usage specifics would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Doug

Hi Doug!

I generally fill the salt cap almost full, because after you pre-wet the salt, it will settle down into the salt chamber quite a bit. One salt chamber full of salt will likely last you around 20 treatments before a refill is needed. Yes, expect wet, undissolved salt in the chamber. In fact, it will stay wet for months. Just leave the salt in the chamber -- do not throw it out between usages.

Another tip – you will likely see some salt encrustation on the outside of the purifier leaching out from the undissolved crystals. This is normal -- just wipe off the encrustation, or rinse it and proceed.

Hope this helps!

Thanks,

Katie

so what are the electrodes made of?

Dear Jon,

I think my response got buried in the chat string. The electrodes are titanium with proprietary catalytic coatings.

Katie

I like the worst case scenario. I have just ordered one after reading all the posts and looking at the MIOX for the last year. It will be to supplement a Katadyn Pocket filter with a Sweetwater prefilter and carbon post filter.
I have a few questions. What exactly is "aeration to reduce the VOC content"?
I'd like to be able to drink just about any water, including the stuff found in the streets of New Orleans. I was in the Hanshin earthquake in Kobe, Japan 10 years ago and remember water running in the streets from broken lines. No water from the faucet though.
Would it be "almost" as effective to treat the water before filtering it as the MIOX at that point is killing the viruses, and the larger bacteria and crud is being removed by the filter, then whatever chlorine is left, is being taken out by the carbon post filter. Seems like a good idea to me, so it's probably flawed in some way.
Thanks.

Oh, I forgot, one other question.
Is the only difference between the military model (black and tan) and the civilian model (black and red)that the military model is more difficult to find should one inadvertently drop it?
Thanks

Thanks to Katie and all the other people who have posted their experiences. This is a very helpful conversation!

Katie wrote that one chamber full of salt should last about twenty treatments. I'm having the opposite experience. One chamber full of the included salt lasts me only one or two treatments. Is there something I'm doing wrong? The salt simply disolves away...

Thanks.

As far as treating worst case water (New Orleans), distillation is an extremely effective method. Solar stills are a cheep, and particularly effective in warm sunny locations like the south. A crude solar still could be constructed from found objects in any urban disaster setting using anything from plastic bags to window glass. Inflatable solar stills are available, and no disaster kit should be without one, and/or a sheet of clear plastic (UV resistant) and some surgical tubing for solar still construction.

http://www.txses.org/epsea/stills.html
http://www.i4at.org/surv/sstill.htm
http://ohoh.essortment.com/solarstill_rcjl.htm

Distillation effectually removes all the Nasties like heavy metals, pathogens, pollutants, etc. with the exception of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) The VOC’s are able pass through the still along with the clean water. That’s the bad news; the good news is that Activated Carbon removes VOC’s effectively.

My question for Katie the Wonder Rep, (thank you Katie for all your patience, and this great Q&A) is this: Would the MIOX Oxidants play any role in helping to dissipate VOC contamination in an open container?

Also, I noticed that you did not list H2O2 as one of the possible oxidant compounds that could be created by this device. Am I missing something?

Thanks

-=MK=-

Hi Katie

A question about solution concentration, will repeated generations of the same MIOX solution double its effectiveness. If I create a 4 liter dose and repeat the MIOX process on that dose will I end up with a dose concentration that treats 8 liters? I’m assuming that there is remaining unconverted salt after the first dose created.

Thanks, Harley
Canada is a cold and friendly place.

> I have a few questions.
>
> What exactly is "aeration to reduce the
> VOC content"?

Introducing air into the water in order to get Volatile Organic Compounds (organic gasses such as formaldehyde and benzene) to come back out of solution. Usually done by either agitation in a container with a high air-to-water ratio or compressed-air percolation using a water tower. Also possible with carbon granule filtration, but the consumables in the aeration process are easier to find (ambient air, and a bit of muscle in the self-sustaining case). ;-)

> I'd like to be able to drink just about
> any water, including the stuff found in
> the streets of New Orleans. I was in the
> Hanshin earthquake in Kobe, Japan
> 10 years ago and remember water running
> in the streets from broken lines. No
> water from the faucet though.

Well, as will always be noted... worst case scenario is designed to get you sufficient resources to get yourself to a -safer- location, where things like potable water are available. In the case of New Orleans, the time required to get somewhere safer was _substantial_. I think Kobe was in a similar situation if memory serves, without all of the *cough* "help" New Orleans had. :-/

> Would it be "almost" as effective to
> treat the water before filtering it
> as the MIOX at that point is killing
> the viruses, and the larger bacteria
> and crud is being removed by the
> filter, then whatever chlorine is
> left, is being taken out by the carbon
> post filter. Seems like a good idea
> to me, so it's probably flawed in some
> way.

Many of the steps could be switched around, but the goal was to try and cull as much out of the water as early as possible, since things like floculation and bulk filtration require the water to stand for a good period of time.

As MK noted, provided the materials and ample sunlight, solar distillation is also very effective at dealing with many of the potential contaminants.

MK: I'd wager you -would- see H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) in the Mi. Ox. solution as well.

I work at the equipment warehouse at Prescott College. We enjoy using many MSR products (MSR markets the MIOX). However, in the interests of fairness I would like to remind potential buyers of this expensive equipment of very much less expensive option.

Iodine (2% tincture) is (still) remarkably effective in purfying water. It is inexpensive, harmeless (unless you use it for months continuously) and is readily available. A small bottle that will last the length of most expeditions is very light. Finally, it uses no batteries, filters or pumps to fail. If you're into expensive gizmos fine; if you're serious about living free of all that noise remember iodine.

Dear Hogokansatsukan, [12:45 PM September 28, 2005]

There is no difference between the actual purifier pen in the black-and-tan and black-and-red models. Note that the black-and-tan purifier was designed for the military with the standard “camouflage” coloring. The military tan version comes with a tan-colored waterproof stuff sack, rather than the black nylon mesh stuff sack that comes with the red outdoor version of the purifier. Because the tan stuff stack costs a little bit more to make (it is actually manufactured by the Lighthouse of the Blind), the retail price for the military purifier is about $10 higher than for the red outdoor purifier. Other than the waterproof stuff sack, there is no difference in the 2 products.

Note that the tan-colored purifier is ALSO available to the general public in the cardboard package with the standard black nylon mesh bag – in this case, the only difference is the color of the purifier. You’d be more likely to find the tan purifier at hunting and fishing outfitters (see www.cabelas.com). The red model is more widely distributed through most sporting goods retailers.

Dear NH86, [reply to question - 10:45 AM October 1, 2005]

You are right -- your salt should NOT be dissolving so rapidly. I have a couple of questions – are you filling the chamber full of salt, or are you only putting in a few crystals? Also, are you getting most of the liquid out of the salt chamber before you push the activation button? If a lot of the liquid is “stuck” up in the salt chamber, it can rapidly dissolve the salt, reducing the number of treatments you get from each capful of salt. You might want to try the remedies for the “Low Salt” fault to get any excess brine out of that chamber. I just manually open the top of my salt chamber, unscrew it from the body of the purifier, and pour any excess liquid back into the cell chamber (holding the remaining salt crystals in place with my thumb). That gets rid of any excess liquid that could dissolve those crystals. Try these remedies, but if you’re still having the problem, give MSR Customer Service a call at (800) 531-9531 – it’s also possible that you have a faulty purifier.

Dear MK, [reply to question - 4:43 PM October 2, 2005]

Unfortunately, the MIOX oxidants would not assist with dissipation of VOC.

In regards to your question about hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), yes indeed – it is another oxidant that could theoretically be formed from the electrolysis of salt (NaCl) and water (H2O). I’ve heard some chemists say that the reaction path would not go towards H2O2, but others seem to support the possible formation. Regardless, the raw materials of “H” and “O” are certainly there!

Dear Harley [reply to question - 2:17 AM October 6, 2005]

You can double the volume of water you treat by applying two separate doses. Since the maximum concentration the purifier can make is for a 4-liter dose, if you’re treating 8 liters of water, you should actually do one 4-liter dose and add it to your treatment container, and then do a separate 4-liter dose and add that as well. (Note that the required wait time is not extended.)

Although there probably is some remaining salt that is not converted during one cycle of electrolysis, as you state, there’s no guarantee of the concentration of that salt. Therefore, it’s not a good idea to leave the electrolyzed brine in the cell chamber and then attempt to reactive that solution – in fact, if you tried to do so, you’d probably end up with a Low Salt fault. If you’re trying to treat a larger container of water, just add together multiple but separate doses.

Martin is correct – both iodine and chlorine tablets or tinctures are reasonably effective and inexpensive methods of treating water. The main disadvantages with either of these choices is that they are not effective against Cryptosporidium (which is admittedly a relatively rare organism), and they take a relatively long time to inactivate Giardia (~4 hours). They also have a limited shelf life and are prone to causing taste issues.

The main advantages of iodine/chlorine tablet or tincture technologies are that they are small and lightweight, as well as inexpensive to purchase. They can be easily replaced on a yearly basis to eliminate the shelf life issue. Of course, if you’re treating a LOT of water, since the solution or tablets can only be used once, there’s a break-even point with purchasing a reusable device, like a filter or the MIOX Purifier. However, if you’re not planning on treating a lot of water, a tablet/tincture method is definitely more economical. Simplicity is sometimes a good thing. :-)

If you like to have a low-cost solution in warm countries, there always is SODIS:
http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm

You basically put a PET bottle in sunlight for a few hours and off you go.
This is an emergency option, but good for people with no money in development countries where sun is abundant, or if all our expensive gadgets happen to fail.

The MIOX works really well for me, I used it to treat 20l canisters of water, only took a few minutes to prepare 5 dosages and we had to drink for another two days (we were four persons). I never really managed to solve the stuck water problem, except for "shaking it down" into the generation chamber. It was not so bad, though. I used it regularly for 3 months, and had to replace the batteries once. I still got plenty of salt, It lasts significantly longer for me than 200 l.
At one point it developped a slight battery contact problem, there was no power at all, until I moved the batteries around a bit. This might have come from the rather hard shakes I gave it to get the water down from the salt chamber...

One thing nobody really emphasized is that water treated with the MIOX versus a filter is easier to handle, it doesn't recontaminate so easily. Sometimes I just used it to treat our filtered water with low dosages to prevent algae buildup in the containers after a few weeks and to keep the water safe. This also worked for bottles that began to smell, one MIOX treatment and it was ok again.

The Katadyn syphon filter we used got clogged constantly, but with a car or when you stay in one place for longer periods this is also a nice solution. No work except refilling the water from time to time. Some sort of primitive prefilter would get rid of the clogging, too.

I bought 2 MIOX units and have not had any of the previous problems with the low salt light.

It looks like if the screen in between the salt chamber ever became plugged with salt that the unit MIGHT not get enough salt but could VERY EAISLY be unplugged with a pen or Pin, Nail, stick or other object.

I am not sure why this keeps coming up but it is a NON ISSUE!

I have many units including
Steri-Pen
Polar Pure
MSR Waterworks, water filter
Kaytadyn Pocket, Combi, Mini, Expedition, Gravidyn
MIOX
Solar Pasteurization

I like the MIOX, but remember to always have a backup source just like you do with your fire starting tools.

Most cops carry 2 guns, I carry 2 water filters.

Ed

Getting that 60g NaCl::1000ml H2O ratio right...

Nalgene makes a container which I believe would be perfect for those looking to prepare a larger batch of -seed- brine (pre-electrolysis source mix) at between a 60::1000 to 100::1000 ratio. The container is a 30ml (1fl oz) nominal capacity cylinder made from clear polycarbonate with a slightly softer and cloudy (high density polyethylene?) screw-cap. After a bit of fiddling using a precision scale, I found that the container itself has some visual cues which can be used to measure out 3g of fine grain salt (I was using Baleine sea salt, but...):

With the container fully closed in front of you, incline the container 45 degrees (approximately), and draw a line from the center of the casting flash on the bottom of the container (^A) to the lowest visible point on the lower edge of the cap (^B). This marks off a section of the container (*C*) which if filled level would be 3g of salt.

My apologies for the ASCII art... you'll need to look at it using a monospaced font like Courier in order for it to be all lined up properly, but I took a stab and padded it enough to look okay in a proportional spaced font as well. :-)

...........................
...........................
../=====================\..
..H=====================H..
..H=====================H..
..H=====================H..
..^B.|###############|.....
.....|###############|.....
.....*###############|.....
.....***#############|.....
.....*****###########|.....
.....***C***#########|.....
.....*********=======|.....
.....|.......!.......|.....
.............^A............
...........................

Dear Ms Bolek,

I would like to ask a few questions:

You refer to "inactivating" various pathogens. Can you direct me to the definition of "inactivate" Miox uses?

You describe a test to measure the ability of the MIOX Purifier to treat Cryptosporidium oocysts. This test begins with 100,000 Cryptosporidium oocysts and after treatment less than 10 viable oocysts remain and MIOX claims 99.99% effectiveness. I see two possible mechanisms: 1) So much of the mixed-oxidants are consumed in inactivating the first 99,990 oocysts that there is not enough to inactivate the last 10. 2) 0.01% (10 out of 100,000) of oocysts are resistant to the concentration of mixed-oxidants used. In case 1, another dose would kill all oocysts. In case 2 another dose might not kill any additional oocysts. Can you tell me which description is more accurate or if another description is correct?

Can you direct me to any published studies of the MIOX method?

As a comment to other readers, filters are available from any laboratory supply (e.g. Fisher Scientific, VWR, Cole-Parmer, etc.) that are accurately rated for the partical size they remove. These filters are usually pretty slow in the smaller sizes (<10 um).

Thank You

Dear Mr. Parker,

“Inactivating” is a standard industry term that refers to destroying the viability of microorganisms, which means that the organisms can no longer cause sickness or replicate. The term “inactivate” is often used interchangeably with “kill.” You will see this term used with any chemical method of disinfection, including ozone, chlorine dioxide, chlorine, and iodine.

The level of inactivation is typically measured by “log.” Each log represents a “9” –- in other words, 2 logs represents 99% inactivation, 3 logs represents 99.9%, 4 logs represents 99.99%, etc. Note that inactivation is not measured in terms of 100% (i.e. 100% kill of viable oocysts).

The U.S. EPA states that microbiological purifiers must achieve a 6 log inactivation of bacteria, a 4 log inactivation of viruses, and a 3 log inactivation of protozoan cysts. (Both Cryptosporidium and Giardia fall in the protozoan cyst category.) The MIOX Purifier achieved at least a 4 log inactivation of protozoan cysts, which is more than 10 times the required 3 log level. If more oocysts had been used at the beginning of the test, it is likely that the Purifier would have inactivated those as well.

In other words, in order to measure 4 log inactivation, you have to start with at least 100,000 organisms. In order to measure 5 log inactivation, you would have to start with at least 1 million organisms. Once you reduce the viable organisms to < 10, it is considered that you have achieved “total” inactivation. Below this level, the “log” description would have no meaning. For example, if you start with 100 organisms, a 4 log (99.99%) inactivation measurement would result in < 0.01 viable organisms. A value for a partial organism doesn’t make sense.

Thus, I’d say that neither of your descriptions above are correct – it’s not that mixed oxidants were unable to inactivate 10 organisms, or that a small percentage of organisms are super-resistant, or that a higher dose would achieve a more thorough inactivation. It’s more a matter of terminology – the mixed oxidants already achieved “total” inactivation, as far as was measurable. If you’re interested, I’d be happy to share the synopsis of the studies conducted according to the EPA Guide Standard & Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers.

Katie

If memory serves...

"N log reduction" is functionally:

log(base10)[ organisms@end / organisms@start ]

So a...
2 log reduction = 10 000 in 1 000 000 effective ratio of 1:100
3 log reduction = 1 000 in 1 000 000 effective ratio of 1:1 000
4 log reduction = 100 in 1 000 000 effective ratio of 1:10 000
5 log reduction = 10 in 1 000 000 effective ratio of 1:100 000
6 log reduction = 1 in 1 000 000 effective ratio of 1:1 000 000

Could someone explain this to me...

The instructions for the safety indicator strips say to "Check water by dipping tha pad end of a Strip into the water for one second and remove. Observe the pad..."

I've noticed that if you leave the Strip in treated water for more than one second the Strip always turns much darker. Is the true indication of water safety really based on the Strip being in treated water for only 1 second? So one would get skewed results after 1 second? Why is this?

Thanks.

Re: Test strips:

Free Available Chlorine (FAC) test strips (single-use) rely on a combination of water exposure time and water temperature to operate properly (no matter what brand you're working with!). Katie would have to speak to the specifics of the strips supplied as part of the MIOX Pen bundle, but typically they include a chart mapping exposure time and temperature.

*****

Katie: A quick favor... can you get some additional details on what the "optimal storage conditions" are for the chart at the bottom of this page, as well as what the FAC Concentration units are (mg/litre?)? Were they using a pressure-sealed opaque container? What temperature was it maintained at (20C?)?

http://www.miox.com/MIOX_process/body_miox_process.html

I have two MIOX pens and this discussion has answered all my questions for use except one. For "emergency" water supply storage, is the MIOX mixture good to add to maintain freshness? I'm thinking both 5-7 gallon water jugs down to a 2-liter pop bottle stored in the car or basement. If starting with tap water what purification will be helpful to maintain freshness? Thanks!

--Peter

> I have two MIOX pens and this discussion has answered
> all my questions for use except one. For "emergency"
> water supply storage, is the MIOX mixture good to add
> to maintain freshness? I'm thinking both 5-7 gallon
> water jugs down to a 2-liter pop bottle stored in the
> car or basement. If starting with tap water what
> purification will be helpful to maintain freshness?
> Thanks!

MIOX has demonstrated itself to be significantly more "hardy" in maintaining Free Available Chlorine levels, but you'll likely have to do a bit of experimentation to determine how much MIOX to add to tap water. I think you'd be looking at somewhere around a 1:3 concentration (1 litre setting with 3 litres water), but Katie might have some better numbers based on prior testing.

You also have a few other things to consider:

* Cleanliness of the container
* Purity of source water
* Flavor at time of consumption

The first one can be handled by either using very clean containers, or using a bit of the MIOX solution on slightly "stale" containers at say, 2:1 concentration (1 litre setting with 1/2 litre water) as a sealed-container rinse prior to filling the container. MIOX is really effective at stripping biofilm.

The second can be handled by allowing ~20 seconds of tap water to flow prior to filling the first container if the tap hasn't been on recently.

The third (should you find the Free Available Chlorine level to be a bit too high for your tastes for long-duration water stores) can be handled by having a secondary container you use for direct-consumption, in which you can also aerate the water just prior to consuming it (1 litre bottle, 3/4 full, cap and shake for a bit).

I hadn't thought of pre-cleaning "stale" containers but it makes lots of sense. The Free Available Chlorine (FAC) level sounds like the answer. If there is FAC then the water will remain protected for a reasonable amount of time. I'll periodically check containers and see how it goes.

The idea of biofilm made me think of the gunk in my 12 gallon room humidifier. I've always disliked using chemicals. Perhaps MIOX will also keep bacteria from growing thru the winter? Assuming normal maintenance of regular cleaning and refilling. Do you think this is a valid use?

Found RCR123a 3.25V Delkin rechargeable batteries at
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/delkin-rcr-123a-rechargeable-charger.htm#top
but the bottom contact is kind of deep and needs a better press on the MIOX negative contact.

Since I found out I can use rechargeable batteries I've been considering MIOX for more disinfectant uses. For example, would a solution clean the germs on the floor in a bathroom? Would it need to be kept wet for too long a time or are fumes a possible problem? Wondering what you may think. Thanks!

--Peter A

havent read this whole string to see if anyone else has brought this up, but fyi to all you who own the miox - you can get cr123 batteries WAY cheaper online from surefire. cool flashlights there also, of course. i recently bought two packs of 12 batteries for my g2 surefire flashlight (awesome backpacking light to supplement my petzl tikka headlamp), i think the cost was $30 plus shipping. and i dont think there was a minimum order size. oh yeah, 10 yr shelf life on those little suckers too. havent purchased the miox yet but am on the fence... really interested in an option using same technology that can treat larger quantities (10-50 gal) for long term water storage. and dont want to have to produce 50 "batches" of potion...

Senegal traveler. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in that area and I would recommend boiling water as much as possible and not rely just on a filter.

Check with the CDC. There may be organisms that aren't killed by filters or treatment.

Dear NH86 [Response to 11:50 AM, Dec. 3rd, 2005]:
Actually, all test strips are designed to measure residual disinfectant based on very specific dip and wait times. Note that the instructions for the MIOX test strips say to dip for 1 second, and then to wait for 15 seconds to gauge the degree of colorization. This is because the amount of indicator reactant in each test strip pad is carefully calibrated to the level of disinfectant in solution. Each color-changing molecule in the pad must meet up with one molecule of chlorine in solution in order for the color to change. With a “quick dip”, the color-changing molecules only come in contact with a limited quantity of chlorine molecules. The number of chlorine molecules contacted will determine the shade to which the color changes. Thus, with the specific MIOX test strips provided, you will have more accurate test results if you dip for a short time and wait for a longer time.

Dear Physix [Response to 10:38 AM, Dec. 5th, 2005]:

In the graph you reference, the term “properly stored” simply means stored in an opaque container with a lid. This is because sunlight degrades chlorine, so storage of the mixed-oxidant solution in a clear container or with no lid will increase the degradation rate of the chlorine component. There is no need to pressure seal the container or to store it at anything other than ambient air temperature. Note that the graph you referenced was for a 1,500 mg/L solution generated from a full-scale MIOX system. On the other hand, the chlorine concentration of the MIOX Purifier ranges depending on the dosage selected.

We have also conducted shelf life studies on the MIOX Purifier prototype. These studies show a stable chlorine concentration lasting over 3 days with a more rapid decline in chlorine concentration beginning after 7 days. These studies were also correlated with the ability to inactivate Cryptosporidium. Interestingly, the “other oxidant” component that enables inactivation of Cryptosporidium lasted 2-3 days before a sharp decline in the log inactivation capability was observed.

Regardless of this information, note that there should be no reason to store the mixed-oxidant solution generated from the MIOX Purifier – it should be used to immediately dose the water, which is assumed to be consumed within several days.

--Katie

Dear Peter A [Response to 8:27 AM, Dec. 8th, 2005]:

Yes, the MIOX solution would be good to add to stored containers to maintain freshness. If the water is consumed fairly soon after adding the disinfectant, it’s likely that no additional disinfectant would need to be added. However, if it’s consumed several years after adding the disinfectant, you should use the test strips first to determine if the water is safe to drink, and then re-treat it if necessary. Alternatively, you can just store the tap water without additional treatment and then treat it only before consuming it, no matter how long the storage period has been. Note that if you have access to any sort of water (i.e. a swimming pool, river, lake, puddle, etc.), you would also be able to collect and treat that water directly after a disaster.

If you are using already treated tap water for storage, you should be able to reduce your dose significantly (perhaps 4:1). Since we have not conducted any studies to date regarding long-term viability of treated water, I cannot recommend a specific dosage reduction. Ultimately, at whatever point you consume the stored water, you want to test it and make sure it is safe to drink at that point in time, which may involve retreating the water.

Note that the comments from Physix are all very relevant as well, particularly the suggestion about aeration to handle taste issues.

Regarding your humidifier, the MIOX solution will do an excellent job at eliminating biofilm build-up! Just be careful that the system does not have any metal elements that would be exposed to the treated water, since MIOX is particularly aggressive against metal. If the humidifier water recirculates through all plastic components, it should not be an issue.

It is interesting that you bring up the use of mixed oxidants for other disinfectant applications. We are actually considering developing a product for that very use, and preliminary tests show that the solution is very effective at eliminating germs. You would want a much higher dosage (perhaps a 4-gallon dose into a quarter liter of water in a spray bottle). Note that the solution would have bleaching power, so you would not want to utilize it on clothing. For cleaning tile, grout, and countertops, however, it could be an excellent application. There may be an unpleasant odor to start, but once the surface is cleaned, that odor should be barely noticeable. The odor is actually caused by the disinfectant reacting with substances on the surface – when the stronger smell goes away, you know the surface is clean. The reaction would be very rapid, so the surface should not need to be kept wet for an extended period of time, and off-gassing would not be a problem to the same extent as other household cleaners. As we progress on this development, I will certainly keep you informed. If you want to experiment yourself, I’d love to learn about your experiences!

Katie

Dear Bill P [Response to 1:40 AM, Dec. 15th, 2005]:

I wanted to point out that the MIOX Purifier is able to treat up to a gallon of water at a time, so for 10 gallons of long-term storage water, you would only be making 10 “batches.” If the water has already been treated (i.e. tap water), then you would be able to reduce your dosage, perhaps 4:1, which would enable you to treat up to 40 gallons with the same volume of disinfectant. Unfortunately, I don’t have any precise dosage reductions I can point to, since we have not studied long-term storage of emergency water, but the idea is to add enough of a chlorine residual to keep the water purified. Note that if you store tap water without additional treatment, you can also treat it right before it is consumed.

Regardless, your point is well-taken. We hope to design a larger product for household use within the next several years, since the mixed-oxidant technology is currently available as an individual use/small group device or for community use, with a gap in between these two sizes.

Dear Matt,

To the best of my knowledge, all organisms should be removed by at least a combination of filters and treatment. If there is evidence to the contrary, please let me know if you find anything. The only organism class that MIOX has not tested against are helminthes (i.e. tapeworm eggs, etc.). These are quite large and would most definitely be removed by filtration. Note that they tend to be prevalent only in certain areas of the world.

Boiling water is always a good idea when treatment or filtration is unavailable...it’s also possible to rig up an impromptu filtration device, such as slow sand filtration, that would at least provide some measure of treatment to raw water.

Katie

Wow. What a web ste and discussion. So much information. Thanks everyone and especially Katie you're a gem. i live in New Zealand where tramping bush walking alpine climbing traveling are national pastimes and readily available. Unfortunately we have stream water river water contamination with giardia and chrypto. Ii have always wanted a katadyn filter and then discovered miox. So am intrigued. You have all contributed to my education here and i thank you.

New Zealand is a hot cold dry wet windy peaceful place usually all in the same day. We are a friendly people though. Cheers

A few observations on treating tap water...

Since the MIOX pen is finally in-stock again locally, I'm now in posession of one. :-)

Using city tap water (chlorinated and fluorinated, San Francisco Bay Area sourced) and a 60g/1000ml salt:water ratio (premixed, see here http://stuff.silverorange.com/archives/2004/september/msrmioxpurifier#reply36576 for info), I performed a full-strength treatment (1000ml water : 2 clicks MIOX) in a sealed container.

After ~30 minutes, I took about three minutes to aerate the water (pour rhythmically between two containers with at least a one foot drop from the lip of the upper container to the surface of the water in the lower container), then taste-tested. As noted earlier, I wouldn't have aerated it were I planning on storing the water for a while (see here for why http://stuff.silverorange.com/archives/2004/september/msrmioxpurifier#reply37747 for why).

An extremely mild post-chlorination odor was still present, but not sufficient to taste it. Tasting treated city water and raw (from the tap) city water back-to-back showed a slightly... "softer" taste to the treated water, but otherwise no discernable difference, and _certainly_ nothing significant enough to hinder consumption of reasonable amounts of treated water, even at room temperature.

Just something to think about for those folks considering use of MIOX for stored-water preservation.

I just purchased the Miox Purifier and now have a question regarding contamination of the water bottle (Nalgene, etc.). Water filters never allow unfiltered water to touch the lip of the Nalgene bottel -it is filtered before the hose gets to the bottle. In this way, the outside of the bottle is not touching contaminated water, thus when I am drinking directly from the Nalgene bottle, my lips are not touching contaminated water .

With the Miox, potentially contaminated water, which resides on the outside of the bottle, is never in contact with the chorine inside the bottle. Does this means my lips are touching the untreated water. If so why isn't this a problem?

Thanks for your excellent comments on all the above responses.

Dave

So I just got a Miox and attempted to use it with tap water before a trip in two weeks. I put in the batteries, press the button the appropriate number of times (after filling the salt chamber, adding the water, shaking) and nothing happens. No light, no bubbling, nothing. Maybe the batteries are dead? They're installed correctly. Back to REI I guess.

I also just purchased a Miox and while I wait for it to arrive I am stocking batteries for it. For anyone that already owns one, do the two CR123's stack vertically (one directly on top of the other) or are they side to side? I am asking because I found matched 123's that are preformed into packs. I can wait until it shows up but I have lots of other things to purchase and wanted to get this out of the way.

Dave B.: You splash-clean the mouh of the container early on in the process.

Matt T.: They're in vertical-series, +- +-, producing 6VDC.

Lots of information here. I have one question I haven't seen addressed anywhere - is the Miox safe for those of us who have high blood pressure and need to limit salt intake?

Suzie-

You might be able to mitigate some of the concerns about residual sodium levels (since it is residual NaCl specifically that you have to avoid) by carrying pre-mixed brine solution in a known concentration. I expanded on one of my earlier posts http://stuff.silverorange.com/archives/2004/september/msrmioxpurifier#reply36576 here http://virtual.twocansandsomestring.net/MSR-MIOX/Brine-Container.html so I could add pictures and some additional math to the content.

Assuming the _absolute_ worst-case scenario, in that you're using a brine on the higher-concentration side (162g Salt :: 1000ml Water), and fail to actually treat the "dose" you add, add it to a half litre (500ml) of water, and drink the entire container yourself, you're looking at about 210mg of Salt (40% Na, 60% Cl) or 84mg of actual Sodium (Na) added per "dose" (capacity of the MSR MIOX pen itself, 1.5ml water).

In the real world, you're unlikely to have all of those things occur at once, and the MIxed OXidants in a treated "dose" are also unlikely to be in a state where 100% of the Sodium could be un-bound and absorbed by your body.

Although I don't have an M.D. after my name, the math says that you should be able to use the MSR MIOX pen even if you're on a severely Sodium-restricted diet (400mg to 1000mg Sodium per day).

Hmm. embedding the URL as part of the identity section might make it clickable...

First of all, I wanted to thank Physix for all of his invaluable additions to this forum!

Secondly, in response to Suzie's question on 7:48 AM March 31, 2006 regarding sodium addition, it is difficult to estimate an EXACT amount of sodium added because the amount is affected by how vigorously you shake the purifier and by which dosage you select. However, the estimations made by Physix more than cover a worse case scenario. A more "typical" shaking of the purifier will generate a brine concentration ranging between 60 and 80 g/L, which translates to the following additions of sodium to the treated water:

? For ½ liter: 31 to 47 mg/L of Na+
? For 1 liter: 16 to 24 mg/L of Na+
? For 2 liters: 8 to 12 mg/L of Na+
? For 1 gallon: 4 to 6 mg/L of Na+

At whatever setting, the sodium added should be acceptable even for those on a limited sodium intake diet. However, to minimize the amount of sodium added, shake the Pen as little as possible and utilize the 1 gallon setting.

I want to thank Katie and the many others on this forum who have contributed such a wealth of information. The level of community and vendor support on this page was a significant factor in my decision to buy two MSR MIOX gadgets. (I believe anything worth buying is worth buying twice.)

It's easy to imbue survival equipment with talismanic properties. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but in a situation where the water is unsafe, as long as electric power or cooking gas are freely available, I plan to simply boil it. I'll be saving the filtering / iodine / chlorine / MIOX magic for harder times when boiling is not an option. I'm just trying to be sensible... does that sound right to the folks out there?

A very interesting forum! I would like to buy a military specification MIOX purifier but have hit upon a problem. Two suppliers in the US have been unable to accept my credit card payment because in Denmark we do not use the US card verification process. Under our "Privacy of the Individual Act" no Danish bank or card clearing agency is allowed to give out this information. Does anyone know of a supplier who can accept foreign Visa card payments and ship products to Denmark?

How do you experts out there think the MIOX stackes up against PRE-MAC's Personal Water Purifier (PWP)? I have used PWP's on active service many times in the field and they seem able to quickly purify highly contaminated water effecively, at least no one I know of died from drinking water purifed this way, and we used some pretty disgusting open water sources. You can become adicted to the taste of iodine-flavoured water eventually, especially in the desert, where any water tastes pretty fantastic.

Has anyone tested the MIOX for purifying urine? Not an uncommon source of water in survival situations.

Finally, how substatiated are the claims that the MIOX can destroy "bacteria associated with Plague and the viruses associated with smallpox and polio. And that it is also extremely effective against the nerve agents Soman (GD) and V-Agent (VX) and the blister agent Lewisite (L)." Has anyone tested this for real?

Best wishes to you all,

James

Meng-

>I want to thank Katie and the many others on this forum who have
> contributed such a wealth of information. The level of community
> and vendor support on this page was a significant factor in my
> decision to buy two MSR MIOX gadgets. (I believe anything worth
> buying is worth buying twice.)

Yep... very tempting to switch to a fully redundant setup (2x MSR/MiOx pen, 4x battery sets, 2x brine premix containers, ...). Especially tempting if you are often mobile or maintain two residences.

> It's easy to imbue survival equipment with talismanic properties.
> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but in a situation where
> the water is unsafe, as long as electric power or cooking gas are
> freely available, I plan to simply boil it. I'll be saving the
> filtering / iodine / chlorine / MIOX magic for harder times when
> boiling is not an option. I'm just trying to be sensible...
> does that sound right to the folks out there?

Steam distillation is great... if you have an abundance of fuel (as you noted), and time (in the same physical location).

Solar distillation is great... if you have an abundance of sunlight (as noted by others above), space, and time (in the same physical location).

Things like Iodine, Sodium Hypochlorite, and MiOx are better matches than the above for situations where you don't have fuel to spare, and/or don't have time in one location to spare.

Have followed the series of posts above with great interest. It seems to me that the point behind the solar/rechargeable battery power issues are intended more for use in disaster preparedness situations. Of course, I will leave it to the original authors to declare their specific intended purpose.

With regard to disaster preparedness, whether it be a hurricane like Katrina, or a potential avian flu pandemic, where municipal water and power may be disrupted for long periods of time (months), the ability to use alternate power from renewable resources would be ideal. True, one could simply stock a suitable number of batteries, but even with a 10 yr shelf life, this is not the best manner to solve the problem. For portable use, this also adds to the weight while giving a finite period of use.

One suggestion would be to simply provide a 12V DC (or multiple of 1.5VDC) power input jack on the unit with suitable circuitry to disable the internal non-rechargeable batteries when plugged in and to convert to the required voltage.

This would allow the use of 12V car cords/power adapters, external battery packs, solar panels and other alternate/mobile power sources including an AC adapter for home use when mains power or generator output is available. Also, in an emergency, almost any size and combination of batteries could be fashioned into a pack and plugged into the unit to provide power.

This way any manufacturer supplied devices could be sold as accessories to avoid excessive cost/weight issues, and the jack would provide a safe interface for 3rd party power solutions. The cost, weight and size factors for adding such a jack/circuitry should be minimal.

An additional thought regarding the 12VDC power input jack.

It would also be nice for MSR to provide a retrofit kit for current owners which would provide this capability without modification of the unit or invalidation of the warranty.

This could be done placing any necessary circuitry inside a plastic container the size of the two CR123 batteries, with a flat cable connection to a jack panel that would attach to the outside case via removable plasic strap. The plastic container would have terminals compatible with the two stacked CR123 batteries.

In this way the retrofit kit could be inserted in place of the batteries (not quite as convenient as the design discussed in my post above), the flat cable extending outside of the battery cap, and the jack securely attached to the outside case (but removeable).

I've been using the MIOX for about 9 months now, and after reading previous posts, I'm a little suprized I haven't encountered any of the issues mentioned.

Howdy,
I am wondering just how effective Miox is at eliminating pesticides, herbicides and fungicides from the water say near a golf course or something??? what about DDT?

Dave-

With respect to the "retrofit kit" ... I mentioned it earlier on... I just haven't had the time to have a friend mill out a prototype from a block of Nylon.

With respect to the 12VDC input idea, there is one snag... dissipating the heat generated from downconversion to the optimal input voltage (between 5.5 and 6.0 VDC) from your external source (12 VDC nominal, but vehicles range from 10.9 VDC to 14.1 VDC) at the sustained current rating (1.8 A).

This could be accomplished by building a block that is longer than the existing battery tube, and including a section which is directly exposed. This could be something as simple as a block of Aluminum or Copper. This could also be accomplished by having an inline DC-DC converter/regulator in an aluminum casing for the external power input _cable_, so that the heat generated can be radiated by that external block.

The risk in not doing this is that the ~15.5 Watts (worst case scenario, sustained load) worth of heat will damage the casing or internal electronics.

A regulator capable of 6.0 VDC out at 3 A peak (2 A sustained) would also likely accept an even wider range of input voltages, quite likely even spanning military power (24VDC). (Hint hint, Katie!)

See the URL I added to the beginning of this post for the approximate area of the thread where Katie shares the info on power utilization.

Forest:

> I am wondering just how effective Miox is at eliminating pesticides,
> herbicides and fungicides from the water say near a golf course
> or something??? what about DDT?

If you search earlier for "Katrina", you'll see a discussion about possible ways to deal with chemically tainted water sources. Since (essentially) no material is removed from a container of water treated with MiOx, it wouldn't be possible to "eliminate" them. In addition, MiOx is not the sort of thing you'd use to "inactivate" or "eliminate" chemical contaminants... you would need to use additional steps, preferrably before the MiOx step.

See the URL I added to the beginning of this post for the approximate area of the thread.

Just so it isn't lost later...

Texas Instruments PTN78060W series (specifically PTN78060WAH) will do -precisely- what I described two posts earlier. At a unit-cost of about $20 retail ($11 @ 1k), and with an ultra-minimal external part count... I'd say that a motivated individual could probably make an external power supply a reality.

12VDC would not be necessary. 6V or any common voltage multiple of 1.5 would be adequate, as an external step-down/up transformer could be used. They key would be a design that was inexpensive, reliable, small, and light weight.

I like the idea of a retrofit that replaces the end cap with a new one containing the DC jack. Might be hard to do with the current flimsy bottom terminal of the battery case.

My reason for focusing on 12VDC/24VDC is that it provides a fallback position to running it from a vehicle, be it civilian, commercial, or military.

The input jack on the MIOX pen itself would expect 6VDC nominal @ 3A, if (at least one version of) the _cable_ had the step-down regulator whose input side expected 10VDC to 30VDC.

I just bought a miox purifier after having been a long term user of filters (first need, sweetwater, etc). While admittedly I love gadgets, I equally hate weight and bulk, and this little device solved both in laboratory conditions. In about a week I am taking my nine year old son on his first extended backpacking trip along the AT in the Smokies, and I'll report back after that adventure. But, as all parents know,... I would sooner cut off my arm than want to deal with the little guy having a case of beaver fever. So, I'll take a little vial of purification tablets as backup in case I do something stupid, but will rely on a combination of "clear" mountain water and the miox. But, under laboratory conditions (my kitchen), my chief pathologist(my wife) could barely taste a difference between our fairly good tasting tap water and the miox treated tap water, and in fact I barely could either (and I've got the taste buds and nose of a seasoned bloodhound). Of course to be fair, we compared it alongside tablet treated water, which looked disturbingly like a urine specimen and likely didn't taste much better. But so far so good, it was easy to use, in particular after reading the above commentaries, light and small. I'll write something glowing in about a week if it works well, or will write something different in about three if it doesn't.

What about the SteriPen?
http://www.hydro-photon.com/
It appears to be a bit larger and a bit more fragile but I am interested in checking out both of these as options. I currently have a PUR hiker that I have toted around and it has done it's job well but something lighter and less time spent pumping water means more time for other activities though I have learned to enjoy my time pumping when it involves a mountain stream or spring.

Eric,
The SteriPen is a good alternative. I reviewed it as well back in October 2005. For treating larger amounts of water the Miox wins hands down. For day hikes the SteriPen can't be beat.

I've used the Miox for the past three years during long (200 - 400 nautical miles) kayaking trips in Southeast Alaska. It works well, and when it doesn't it is our vault. We (2 adults) treat approximately 8 liters a day if the sun is shining and less if it isn’t. It usually isn’t, so lets say 6 – 7 liters.

We’ve beat the low salt indicator problem through trail and error, but have yet to solve the low battery issue. I’m thinking of using the same approach as my car check engine light; electric tape over the offending led. I use a set of batteries a summer and another during the rest of the year.

Somewhere, and it may have been on this string of messages, I found an alternative approach to the directions that came from MSR. We’ve tailored that as well by using our thumb to cover the top when mixing the water and salt, then opening the top to release the mix into the chamber. Practice has also taught us it is easier to treat a three-liter container through two 2-liter applications rather than one 4-liter application. The test strips are a deep purple so, while the science on that may be weird, the application is fine.

We spent 32 nights on the beach in the past three months and, at 7 liters a day that comes out to a lot of water! This summer the water here has been clear because of the late spring thaw and constant rain. No need for a pre-filter and even the tanic laced water hasn’t been a great problem.

We haven’t used a pump filter for two summers – we carry one as back-up – and hope never to need to do so again.

Wait time issue is, in my opinion, not worth debating since in a kayak we can always carry a liter or two as back-up while we wait for the next batch to “bake”.
Smell and taste dissipates with time and is generally not noticeable.

Everyone who travels with us on these trips buys a Miox within a week of returning home.

Joseph

I have been using for the last 3 years a water filter from General Ecology. I like the fact that it takes care of virus, parasites and chemical (like pesticide etc.). But after a while it's very difficult to pump and it drives me crazy. I am travelling by bike with my wife so a lighter filter/purifier would be more than welcome. And if I can avoid to have to pump my arm off while sweating after a hard hill I would be happy too. I was just introduced to the miox purifier and steripen. You mentioned ealier about a comparison table and somewhere else on this site about reviews on the miox vs the steripen. Is there anyway you can adress them to me. I would appreciate it. And one last question. I see everywhere how the Miox P. inactivate germs, does that mean this is temporarily. If so, for how long is the water drinkable? Thanks for your help.

Folks,

Interesting thread. I'd like to add a couple of comments from the Steripen point of view.

1. SteriPEN treats a liter of water every 90 seconds (or less). If you want a gallon, it will take 6 minutes. Not 30 minutes. Not 4 hours. Do you really want to wait 30 minutes for a drink of water?
2. Our testing is all posted on our website for all the world to see and review. Would you buy from anyone who doesn't?
3. SteriPEN has one button to push. No salt. No test strips. No chemical taste or smell. No drips of bleach on your gear. Do you really want to be testing chemical concentrations in the backcountry?
4. With lithium batteries, the current steripen is 6 ounces. The adventurer, which will be available in REI next month, is under 4 ounces.
5. SteriPEN does need clear water and Hydro-Photon sells an easy to use pre-filter to accomplish this quickly and easily. However, you can use a bandanna, coffee filter, or whatever to remove sediment and floaties.
6. Before you buy any chemicals for back country use, check out the independent testing by the School of Occupational Health and Safety that is posted at the web address above. You will note that they purchased products off the shelf without notifying the manufacturers and tested them against Cryptosporidium. Crypto killed 100 people in Milwaukee in the mid 90s. You will see that, in this completely independent study, only SteriPEN and boiling produced safe results. None of the chemical solutions passed muster. Do you really want to take chances with Cryptosporidium?

So SteriPEN is easier to use than MIOX, faster than MIOX for any volume of water, doesn't smell like a swimming pool and is highly, highly effective. While money isn't everything, it might interest buyers to note that SteriPEN retails at $99.95 v. $129.95 for MIOX.

Safe and happy hiking,
Tim
AT & PCT Thru-hiker

Tim,
Thanks for your feedback. As an AT & PCT thru-hiker you probably have more experience than most backpackers on this thread (including myself). I'm glad to have you here sharing your experience. As someone who has both a Miox & a Steripen I'd like to make a little clarification. Yes, based purely on time the Steripen will treat water faster than the Miox. But if you look at the two from an amount of work perspective the Miox wins hands down for larger groups/quantities. The Miox can treat up to 4 litres in one dose. This takes under a minute of work (then you have to wait). With the Steripen you have to actually sit and stir the pen for minutes on end, but you can drink it right away. When guiding or working with a larger group I appreciate the extra time the Miox gives me to repair gear, encourage someone, etc.. When hiking alone it's hard to beat the convienience of the Steripen.

Thanks again for your input!

Interesting thread but I can't help but thinking that the Miox is a sad example of laboratory based over-engineering which has not been fully backed up by sufficient time in the field.
My concerns about using this device would be firstly the availability of lithium batteries (why not use AAA - far more readily available outside the first world), rock salt (would regular salt do?), and wosrt of all indicator paper, particularly in the third world and especially in the sort of environments where it would be necessary to purify water over a long period of time.
Second, why not just take chlorine tablets or better still tincture of iodine? It's not as if MIOX provides a filtration system, and moreover the effectiveness of Chlorine is inferior to Iodine in the presence of organic matter. Also what of temperature? Chlorine is less effective at lower temperatures - the sort of temperatures you are likely to find in mountain streams - already, four hours is a very long time to wait for clean water, if you were to increase contact time even further the sheer logistics of it become simply unmanageable.
And as someone sagely pointed out - you can mix up the chlorine solution in advance, but why not just buy tincture of iodine in the first place, and save yourself a lot of money? Yes - there are issues related to thyroid health if using iodine over a long period of time, but it is a simple system that does not require batteries, salt or test strips, with a contact time unlikely to be longer than 30 minutes (even at cold temperatures). Should there be health issues, one could even opt for a good iodine impregnated resin bead system that would filter and purify in one go, have water ready to drink in a matter of minutes but leave only a small measured dose as not to cause thyroid problems.
Finally, is it not true that the whole MIOX system was launched off the back of the Asian Tsunami? A valiant gesture by MSR to ship so many MIOX systems to the needy, but I wonder how long it took them before they ran into supply problems of the nature I have described, or whether indeed they could even decipher the highly inadequate instructions.

Re: http://stuff.silverorange.com/archive/2004/september/msrmioxpurifier#comment77758

Everyone say it slowly now... "T R O L L".

If you're going to troll, at least read the rest of the thread first?

* CR123 cells can happily deliver the 1.8A+ required to power the MIOX pen (CR123 1400mAh nominal, 1000mA sustained, 3000mA short-burst rating @ 3VDC).

AAA cells, _even_ lithium AAA cells, are hard pressed to deliver that kind of current, and also operate at 1.5VDC nominal, and not 3VDC nominal).

Energizer e^2 Titanium AAA cells as an example, are 1375mAh at 1.5V (these are still considered relatively "exotic" cells).
Monster Power Cell AAA cells as another example, are 1150 mAh at 1.5V (likely just high-end alkaline cells).

Traditional alkaline AAA cells (what you're actually suggesting people use) are far lower capacity than that.

* Household Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite + Water) isn't as effective as mixed-oxidants. The mixed-oxidant solution is useable for two days at full effectiveness, and up to nine days at partial effectiveness. See above.

* Ozonation, mixed-oxidant, filtration, floculation, iodization all offer different benefits/drawbacks. Again, read the rest of the thread first. The risk with iodization is that it only remains effective until it is unbound. Most people de-treat their water after iodization to cut the taste... in most circumstances neutralizing the effects of iodization in the process.

* If you can achieve something close to 60g NaCl :: 1 L H2O, you can use whatever form of salt you want. See above.

* Indicator paper is not required-use per-batch, if you have a steady-state source for water. You can also just double or triple treat it, then aerate the water when you're done. Yet again, see above.

* MIOX Corporation doesn't use the MIOX pen as their financial bread-and-butter, so to speak. They're in the commercial/municipal water treatment business, the MIOX pen represents an interesting, but still _niche_ market if you analyze it based on million-gallons-per-year or dollars per year. Mountain Safety Research (MSR) is the retailer for the MIOX pen, not the manufacturer.

Note: I don't work for any of the companies mentioned in this thread.

I noticed one indiscussed issue: Dave Braunstein [March 16, 2006] asked whether contaminated water on the outer rim of his Nalgene was an issue. Without the use of a funnel or a secondary container for filling it (and being very, very careful), wouldn't this be a problem? I'm a new owner of a MIOX and, though I intend to use a camelbak bladder, am quite curious about the potential danger of the untreated water on the lip of a bottle. Any thoughts?

Many important topics have come up and a lot of time has passed. Do any of you long-time users have any new findings or evaluations of the purifier? Has anyone tried using coffee filters, t-shirts, or other particulate filters, and how did that go? My main concern with using the MIOX without a pump filter is in those cases I encounter more turbid water. Other observations might include how long you find the batteries to last. If it helps, I've heard rock salt is good idea as it dissolves more slowly.

Cheers

Step,
Regarding the contamination of the rim of the Nalgene bottle, rinsing with the water that has just been treated with the mixed oxidants is a good idea. Remember any infection requires a certain number of organisms to establish an infection; rinsing with water where miox has been just added will dilute the organisms and if there is residual water on the lips, will act to disinfect assuming prolonged contact. Of course rinsing with a much more concentrated batch ie 2 L setting mixed with 100 ml water is best, and is better if that concentrated solution is wet onto a cloth and the rim wiped, just like surface decontamination.

I just finished a week-long backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon where we used the Miox for treating water for our group of 6. We found it to be a finicky product that took a lot of trial and error to use correctly. The instructions were complicated, the batteries drained quickly, it was hard to saturate the salt properly (requiring LOTS of shaking), the threads on the cap picked up a lot of dust/sand/dirt and became difficult to screw on and off, the chlorine taste was noticeable, etc., etc., etc. We have used Polar Pure for the past 10 years and found it to be much easier to work with, despite the iodine taste. By the end of the week, some in our group had grown fond of the Miox system. Others were absolutely cursing it and sneaking back to the Polar Pure bottles. Overall, our group would give Miox a very mixed review. -- DCK

I just came back from a loop backpack in the Grand Canyon with four people using one Miox and it worked wonderfully. We treated creek water, spring water, settled river water and pothole water and had no problems. Reading this thread, I'm amazed at how many folks don't understand the concept of clean water vs. sterile water. You aren't doing abdominal surgery here folks, you're just cleaning water. The actual chance of getting sick from drinking water in the backcountry as long as you're not collecting it below a campground or animal grazing site is very low. The first five inches of lake water exposed to full sunlight is probably the cleanest water you will ever find. Municipal water is treated with more stuff than the miox uses, and if you think most municipal water will pass the purple strip test, I think you'll be surprised.

Read http://www.latimes.com/search/la-os-giardia26jul26,0,5583137.story

Dan,

Good article. So the hype is getting strong... Better safe than sorry!
Oh, btw tap water is California is shyte. Way too much clorine (I almost suffocated while having a shower - no joke -) and it contains even fluoride (why?).

I have just completed the first test of my new Msr Miox Purifier,after reading the instructions i followed them exactly and did not have any problems at all. I would recommend this product.

Over a year ago I asked about the rechargeable rcr123a batteries at
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/delkin-rcr-123a-rechargeable-charger.htm
Just wanted to let anyone that was interested know that they work fine. Using the rechargeable will make extended usage for household cleaning or extended trips of any sort much less $$$. There is a 12 volt DC re-charger also so any source such as solar, or transfer charges from any other 12 Volt source will work out in the wild.

There are a couple of things to be aware of and adapt to. The negative pole is too deeply set for the flat MIOX piece to flex in to touch it. Any metal, like a very small washer, fills this gap. The regular CR123 batteries have a thinner outer layer and lesser wrapping around the ends so they don't have this problem. I hope this may save folks from worry about doing any 12 volt step downs or AAA battery conversions. Also since batteries can be recharged extra quickly whenever AC is available, packing an extra couple pairs as backup will last you, well... forever!

Seems that the RCR sometimes gives a low battery condition for the LONG process times of four button pushes, i.e. 1 Gallon. But has no problem at all with a two button push. But it still works. So just do two x 2 buttons (or more) rather than four at once. Must be the current draw or such.

The batteries seem to last quite well. But I recharge every at least every few months just as a standard maintenance item. As some others have mentioned they also work for small high powered flashlights.

For those having problems with the salting methods -- turn the MIOX over while shaking and TAP it a few times to move the internal water into the cap. Then TAP it of the cap before you open it. Works fine! Also, put water in two or three times before you push the button when the salt is dry. The salt will absorb most of the first couple of batches of water before it melts.

As for getting too much sand into the threads... Hello!!!!! Why are you putting sand in the threads at all? Stop it!

Have a safe and happy summer of 2007 drinking safely!

~PetePixxx
Do Something Useful

hello.

i have been researching water sterilization for some time and after reading all of the above posts i am surprised that you have omitted one particular method of water sterilization.

It called electrolyzed water and has been researched extensively in Japan.
NOW I can just hear the mental barriers going up since foreign researchers suffers from ingrained prejudice from us americans.

Hey! they are not american so they must be kooks and cant be trusted.although we can cetainly trust their cell phones and other electrical goods...enough to part with hard cash...

you can look up electrolyzed water in wiki or google and in particular neutral electrolysed water.

some americans have ALSO researched it.

it's made by passing electrical current through water to which a pinch of salt has been added....

you can make it yourself easily by using 2 silver 2 mm thick electrodes of about10 cm lenght and spaced 0.75 or 1 inch apart and passing a current from any 3v to 6v source ...which can be cheap AA batteries or solar cells...for about 15 mins.

higher voltages means less time waiting of about 15 mins or even less.

silver electrodes are used as silver is non-toxic and is used extensively in medical care...

pure 99.9% silver electrodes cost about $14 or use 99.9% silver canadian maple leaf coins instead....

sterilization is done by the production of various oxidants...by the electrolysis...

a secondary minor antibacterial property is the production of silver ions....

simply stick 2 silver electrodes in the cap of a glass or plastic 1 liter bottle spaced 0.5 inch apart...attach a 3 to 6 volt battery with an on/off switch if desired...

when filled with water electrolysis will sterilize it...

the battery life will be at least a 100 times more as the current will not exceed 0.1 amp....cheap AA batteries can be used - rechargeable or otherwise..solar cells too...

lookup neutral electrolyzed water in google.

its antibacterial properties are now well researched...

it's even on you tube now used to treat ulcers and hard to heal persistant infected wounds.see the graphic youtube videos...but you are warned the researchers are japanese and you may have a difficult struggle with your prejudice.

type electrolysed water in search...

copper electrodes can used too as it too is fairly safe.

in my water purifier 1 inch of the pure copper wire which is attached to the 10 cm silver elctrodes is allowed to be submerged. this produces a combination of silver and cooper ions in addition to the oxidants produce by the the electrolysis.....making this very cheap and effective...

An update on my September, 2006 comments

After another 1100 miles or 60 +- days ( sea-kayaking trips) of use the Miox continues to amaze us and impress our fellow paddlers. The most interisting piece to this update is that we HAVE NOT had to replace the battery this summer! So, that means more than 100 days of use at about 8 liters a day. Can't figure out why unless its the lithium batteries we put in last summer.

Great performance.

Amondotech.com is a horrible online company!!! Warning, do not use them!!!
I ordered a universal battery charger from them and after 3 days it literally melted down.
I’m an electronics tech so I understand how to use a charger :) but this one was dangerous.

I emailed them and got one replay saying “It should run warm but not over heat” I called repeatedly and got a voicemail every time. I started mailing every day for a week and got nothing back. What they did do is start spamming me and they will not stop. I have reported them to spam cop and others but still getting spam. I found their supplier in China and emailed them about this item and got no reply. I am now forced to have my attorney take this over.

This sounds all very nice, but I have tried a fantastic product that is far easier than all of this work you need to go thru with this Mioz Purifier - the product is called SteriPEN and it purifies water in seconds not hours - it's based on the UV light purification system - this is the way to go - and it even has a solar battery pack - so no bad battery experiences -this is the way to go!

This sounds all very nice, but I have tried a fantastic product that is far easier than all of this work you need to go thru with this Mioz Purifier - the product is called SteriPEN and it purifies water in seconds not hours - it's based on the UV light purification system - this is the way to go - and it even has a solar battery pack - so no bad battery experiences -this is the way to go!

That new steripen looks great! Light and fast for small amounts. But don't forget your Pre-filter! http://www.nitro-pak.com/index.php?cPath=40_269 It doesn't actually work unless the water is clear to start. Perhaps the ease of use of a "hard-shell" solar recharger unit while backpack/kayak traveling needs some clarification? Does it float? But the same rechargeable batteries should ALSO work in the MIOX. Note: the rechargeable are only hold 1/2 the power of a 1300 mAh primary battery. But the new Tenergy rechargeables specifically say they "don't explode" when recharging, Yeah!!! Just a few thoughts to mull over. I'd love to hear if anyone has the new steripen AND a MIOX in their traveling kit and how it is working out. Happy trails!

Found it!! Nitro-pak volume numbers are WRONG! They just cut and pasted the expected volume per battery set from the "classic" to the new Steripen. The "summary" version of the numbers from Steripen http://www.steripen.com/batterytesting.html are:

Adventurer/Traveler Batteries Number of Expected Uses CR123 Batteries 0.5 L (16 oz.) of water
Disposable = 80-115 ~about 11-15 gallons, depending on battery brand
Rechargeable = 40-50 ~about 5 gallons

Which isn't too bad. I carry both a steripen "original" for quick gulps when I have clear water (and/or a filter of some sort), AND a Miox for volume and confirmed safety, so I was wondering what the actual volume numbers are for the rechargeable batteries. I may add the Adventurer for short trips when I'm not expecting to get very thirsty. Happy trails!

Yup it really does work, but takes time. I still use my katadyne most of the time though.

This device uses the same chemical reaction used on an industrial scale to make chlorates and perchlorates for pyrotechnics etc; the lower order chloroxy compounds are good biocides. When sodium chloride solution is electrolyzed it makes Sodium hydroxide, NaOH plus atomic chlorine Cl and oxygen O2 which then reacts to form the hypochlorite NaClO, then the chlorite NaClo2, then the chlorate, NaClO3 then finally the perchlorate NaClO4 which is relatively stable, and not as effective at killing bugs. The freshly electrolyzed solution will also contain lots of OH* free radicals, hydrogen peroxide and chlorine dioxide. (yumm, just like mom used to make!)

If you trust the chemistry with your life, you can build your own chlor-oxy water purifier for a pittance, about $10 in platinum wire (yeah, it's expensive, but required since it will not corrode), a film container, silicone glue, and a 9V will do.

Chris,

Might you have a URL on how to build your own "chlor-oxy water purifier". Sounds like a neat project.

Kevin

Katie,

When might MSR release a version of the MIOX that uses conventional batteries? I understand it was designed for the military, whom 1) prefer odd-batteries as to reduce the useful of devices lost to the enemy, 2) prefer to use similar batteries already in inventory, and 2) consider individual battery cost very minor compared to performance. But civilians have quite different needs. Since the technology is rather simple (see
http://chemmovies.unl.edu/Chemistry/DoChem/DoChem047.html), is the civilian market large enough to have a AA, AAA, or 9V model anytime soon? Also, might MSR include a simple & convienet strainer/prefilter to mitigate the floaties issue and increase the disinfectant efficiency?

Thanks,
Kevin

Out of curiousity, can the electrified salt water solution be consumed directly or used for anti-bacterial/anti-viral medical purposes?

what about using KCl (Potassium Chloride) or a mix of NaCl and KCl instead of regular cooking salt?
Advantages: I could prepare a concentrated solution of the salt(s) and use it for the MIox Purifier as well as add it to my drinking water to replenish lost body salt. Furthermore, KCl is indicated for people suffering from blood high pressure as a replacement for NaCl; here in Italy the salt is sold in supermarkets everywhere.
I understand the oxidation potential of Na and K is different, therefore the quantity of salt required might differ slightly, but I presume the reactions occuring in the solution would be the same.

And what if I added MgCl2 to the mix?

I think that's an interesting question, hopefully somebody with the knowledge will reply.

cheers

I think using CR123 batteries is a great idea. These lithium batteries have a 10 year shelf life, light weight, powerful and are used in many compact quality flashlights. For me CR123 is more of a reason to purchase the MIOX.