silverorange stuff

I do alot of extended trips into the mountains and we use alot of water over a 4-8 day excursion. we are currently using a katadyn gravity bag taht yields about a 1 to 1.5 gallons over ten hours. pretty slow. you also need a place to hang it. the higher the better. we have been taking quite a few trips above timberline and this creates a real problem sometime. we have a 2.5 gallon collapsible jug for storage. can you treat the full 2.5 gallons of raw water with the miox by increasing the solution you add to the storage container or is it just for 1 liter bottles. five hours of wait to yield a large quantity of water is usually less time than we spend fishing in a day. could somebody answer my questions and get back to me via my e-mail mongeauxx@aol.com

thank you

The MSR MIOX pen allows you to generate Oxidate sufficient to treat 1, 2, or 4 liters at a time. So to treat your 2.5 gallon jug you would have to create 2 doses for 4 liters and 1 for 2 liters. I've done this before and it only takes a few minutes to prepare all 3 Oxidate doses.

I am the Marketing Manager at MIOX Corporation, and just wanted to comment on a few statements in the review. First of all, thank you for reviewing our product! Secondly, the CR123 lithium camera batteries will treat about 200 liters of water before they need to be replaced, and they are available at WalMart for $10 for a set. They are a fairly common camera battery, although not as readily available as AA batteries.

I also wanted to clarify the statement on viruses -- the purifier will actually inactivate all bacteria and viruses within 15 minutes and will inactivate the protozoan cyst Giardia within 30 minutes. The EPA's Guide Standard & Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers requires a 99.9% (3 log) removal of protozoan cysts.

Inactivation of the more resistant Cryptosporidium parvum oocyst is NOT required in the EPA Purifier Protocol. However, MIOX Corporation and MSR went beyond the requirements of the protocol in order to address any organism that might be of concern to the public. In order to measure high levels of inactivation, a very high initial level of oocysts must be used. In independent testing on the MSR MIOX Purifier, BioVir Laboratories, a government-qualified laboratory employing “Good Laboratory Practices,” started with 100,000 Cryptosporidium oocysts. This excessive concentration of Cryptosporidium would be highly unlikely to occur in natural waters. A 3 log (99.9%) removal of 100,000 oocysts would reduce the viable organisms to 100 oocysts. The MSR MIOX Purifier actually achieved more than 10 times the standard for protozoan cysts, accomplishing a 4 log (99.99%) removal in 4 hours, which equated to less than 10 viable oocysts, even in the more challenging test water.

In earlier, non-related studies conducted by the University of North Carolina (which is not a government-qualified lab for purifier protocol testing), the MIOX solution achieved a 95% removal of Cryptosporidium in 30 minutes. Individual consumers can use their own judgment to determine how long to wait -- if their immune system is compromised, or they are camping at a site that is likely to be highly contaminated, they should wait the full 4 hours to ensure 99.9% removal of Cryptosporidium. Giardia, viruses, and bacteria will be removed after 30 minutes.

This is a wonderful device if what you want is a compact little chlorine maker. Remember, sodium chloride? Your mixed oxidants is code for a strong chlorine solution. Why not just pack a very small bottle of chlorine bleach. Personally, I don't want to be in the same room with chlorine myself

In response to Doug's comment, he is somewhat correct. The main component of the mixed-oxidant solution is indeed a very dilute chlorine (Cl2 + HOCl + OCl-) that is completely harmless to the user. However, it appears that other chloroxygen compounds with more potent disinfection efficacy than chlorine are also being created, as evidenced by the ability of the MIOX Purifier to inactivate resistant protozoan cysts like Giardia and Crytosporidium. For example, Giardia is wiped out by mixed oxidants within 30 minutes. (As discussed above, wait 4 hours for 99.9% removal of the less common Cryptosporidium oocyst.)

In contrast, note that chlorine, including chlorine tablets or a small bottle of chlorine bleach, requires a 4-hour wait time for Giardia (versus the MSR MIOX Purifier's 30-minute wait), and chlorine will not inactivate Cryptosporidium at all. The reason for using the MSR MIOX Purifier instead of a small bottle of chlorine bleach is that the purifier accomplishes much more thorough inactivation of microorganisms much more rapidly.

Another good water purification alternative is a hand-held filtration pump. The advantage of a filtration pump is immediate removal of Cryptosporidium; however, viruses are too small to be removed with a filter, so filtration must be followed by some sort of chemical disinfection, such as iodine or chlorine. The MSR MIOX Purifier accomplishes total disinfection in one step, with no pumping required, and occupies only 1/7 of the space of a typical pump.

Katie Bolek,

I read some of your comments promoting the MIOX water purfier on the
"Silverorange.com" website. I am highly interested in your product
but am still in the process of educating myself about the product.
Can you please refer to a comparison between the MIOX purifier and
Chlorine Dioxide tablets/liquid. Perhaps your company is
knowledgeable of a comparison between MIOX and the "Micropur MP1"
Chlorine dioxide tablets produced by the Katadyn company. Thank you
for your consideration.

Sincerely,
ridgepole@gmail.com

Dear Ridge,

The MicroPur ClO2 tablets are a nice alternative since they are effective against all microorganisms and don't leave a bad taste in the water, just like the MIOX Purifier. I will highlight some of the advantages of the purifier below:

1. Wait Time -- The ClO2 tablets require a 4 hour wait time to inactivate Giardia, whereas the MIOX Purifier requires only a 30-minute wait time for Giardia.

2. Tablets vs. Reusable Device -- The main difference in using a tablet disinfectant vs. a resuable device is that the tablets have a lower cost upfront, whereas a reusable device will eventually reach a breakeven point if you treat multiple volumes of water. The MicroPur tablets sell for about $14 for 30 tablets, and 1 tablet is required per liter. This means that it costs about $0.47 to treat 1 liter of water with the ClO2 tablet, no matter how many liters you treat. With the MSR MIOX Purifier, the initial cost is higher, but your only ongoing cost of operations is replacement of the batteries. (Each set of batteries costs about $10 and will last for around 200 liters of treatment.) The breakeven point in cost for the MIOX Purifier versus ClO2 tablets is right around 300 liters of water treatment.

3. Shelflife -- Tablets have a limited shelflife, whereas the MIOX Purifier has an infinite shelflife (the batteries should last 7-10 years and are easily replaced), so it makes an excellent emergency water treatment device for an unplanned disaster, such as a power outage, hurricane, flood, or tornado.

4. Safety Guaranteed -- Something unique about the MIOX Purifier is the ability to verify that the water is safe to drink. Although standard dosage instructions for any disinfectant will be adequate for most waters, you may run across a water supply that has extra levels of contamination that are not visible to the naked eye. If you treat with the standard dosage, the disinfectant will be used up before all of the microorganisms are killed. With the MIOX Purifier, you have the option of verifying that the water is safe to drink with the purity indicator strip -- you can see if you need to double up on your dosage or not.

Hopefully, this will answer some of your questions. Please let me know if you need any more assistance!

Thank you,

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Just curious, but you site some mystery choroxygen compounds are created along with the chlorine. If these are not able to be positively identified, how are you certain they are acceptable for human consumption? It would seem that mystery compounds such as these, would need to be identified and rigorously tested before being released to the public. This is my main concern and is what is preventing me from buying the miox. I would appreciate you addressing this issue, Katie. Was testing health testing done, and if so, to what degree? Also have there been any side affects or health problems encountered from the mixed oxidants?

I've found all of this information very useful, and am on the brink of deciding to use the device throughout my upcoming 3-month stay in Senegal. However, one thing remains unclear. Salt is of course readily available, but I believe salt tablets are included in the package. Are these tablets necessary for use? If so, how can they be obtained? At what cost? If not, are there any requirements for the salt to be used? Can it be iodized? Can it be sea salt (the most common form in Senegal)? How much is required? I'd appreciate it if Katie or anyone else could answer these questions.

Thanks,
Nevin Dawson

I've been having problems with my Miox now for some time. Being an ultralite guy, I was super-excited when it came out. Sadly, my experiences have been really bad. on several trips, with instructions read and reread, I have have spotty results. Customer service from MSR has not really been helpful. Even in clear water, it often takes many many attempts to get the purifier to actually purify the water. Usually I get the solid red "not enough salt" light. I've different salt, more salt, less salt. It doesn't make a difference. The MSR folks told me to shake it more times and if it doesn't purify close and shake some more. All well and good, but 60-70 shakes can be a bummer (also uses up all the salt really quickly).

A good friend of mine picked one up as well, and has had the same problem on several occasions. I'm curious if I am missing out on some secret chant that I need to make or something.

I have experienced the same problems as Kevin. I bought the MIOX and it worked perfectly while testing it at home. However when I field tested it on an overnight backpacking trip I could not get the MIOX to work. It kept giving me the "low salt" reading that Kevin described. No amount of shaking would solve the problem. I used up almost half of the salt and still nothing. Fortunately I had brought along some tablets for emergency purposes. I contacted MSR and they also told me to "shake it more". I shaked until my arm almost fell off and it still didn't work, even with tap water. I finally returned the MIOX and got a new one hoping that I had just gotten a lemon. I have not had a chance to field test the new unit, but it does seem to be working at home. Of course the first one did too. Hopefully this is not a problem with all of the MIOX units. I really like the concept of the MIOX. If it fails my field test again though, I guess I will have to go back pumping with filters. The MIOX features are attractive, but all those features are worthless if it is unreliable.

Jester,

You mention the mystery chlor-oxygen compounds that are created along with the chlorine. Since we’re starting with only water (H2O) and salt (NaCl) as feed stocks, we know that any compound created has to be some combination of those 4 elements. These are the known or possible electrolytic reactions at the anode of the mixed-oxidant cell:

2 Cl- = Cl2 + 2e-
2H2O = O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
HOCl + H2O = ClO2 + 3H+ + 3e-
O2 + H2O = O3 + 2H+ + 2e-

The major reaction at the cathode is electrolysis of water:
2H2O + 2e- = H2 (gas) + 2OH-

The bulk solution can also undergo hydrolysis, which does not involve a transfer of electrons:
Cl2 + H2O = HOCl + Cl- + H+
HOCl = OCl- + H+

Here are what those chemical terms mean:
Cl2 = chlorine
O2 = oxygen
ClO2 = chlorine dioxide
O3 = ozone
H2 = hydrogen gas
OH- = sodium hydroxide
HOCl = hypochlorous acid (the more effective disinfecting component of chlorine)
OCl- = hypochlorite ion (the less effective disinfecting component of chlorine)

As you can see, all of the possible reactions would generate oxidants that are in common use today, such as chlorine dioxide and ozone. There’s a chance that these oxidants, if produced, are reacting with the chlorine and going to some sort of free radical, but again, those would only involve elements of chlorine and oxygen. Moreover, we’ve tested for the disinfection by-products (regulated by the EPA in municipal drinking water) associated with chlorine dioxide and ozone, and we’ve never found either one of those by-products (chlorite and bromate) in waters treated with the mixed-oxidant solution.

There have never been any negative health consequences associated with the mixed-oxidant solution used in normal consumption. As far as safety for the public, water treated with mixed oxidants is very similar to water treated with chlorine – it just tastes better. We’ve had installations at municipalities for nearly 10 years now, without any negative feedback. We have over 1200 full-scale generators operating worldwide, treating more than 1 billion gallons per day of water. Hopefully, this will address your concerns.

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Nevin,

The salt that comes in the package is rock salt, but actually, any kind of salt can be used with the MSR MIOX Purifier, including table salt, rock salt, or salt pellets. The salt can be iodized. Sea salt can also be used, but since it has high levels of contaminants, it is preferable that a different kind of salt be used. You may even want to take over a ziploc baggy of table salt or rock salt from the U.S. before you head out.

Salt is indeed necessary for use – salt, water, and power (supplied via batteries) are the three items necessary to make the purifier work. Note that the batteries will last for about 200 liters of water treatment – you might want to pick up a few spare sets of 3-volt CR-123 lithium camera batteries at WalMart before you go to Senegal (these batteries cost about $10 per set).

You can provide your own replacement salt, or you can pick up a replacement “kit” at stores like REI or Campmor for $17.95. This kit includes another baggy of salt, along with 50 additional safety indicator strips. The baggy of salt contains about 2 ounces of salt, which will last for around 200 liters of water treatment.

Thanks!

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

Dear Kevin and Jason,

I’m sorry to hear about your issues with the MSR MIOX Purifier. Your problem actually sounds very similar to what a friend of mine and I were experiencing with our initial purifiers. I had wet down the salt in the salt cap, and filled the cell reservoir with additional water. Whenever I would shake it, the cell reservoir appeared to be half empty, and I kept getting a Low Salt fault, no matter how much I would shake it. I also used up my salt in the salt chamber in just a day or so.

The problem appeared to be connected to the seal in the salt cap – it was not allowing the brine to flow back into the cell, so the cell chamber was always only halfway full. (Not having enough brine in the cell chamber will also result in a Low Salt fault.) I found that if I took off the salt cap, and then actually unscrewed the end of the salt cap, plugged the opening with my thumb, and poured the brine solution back into the cell chamber, I could get that last remnant of brine out of the salt cap and back into the cell chamber, and then the purifier would work fine. Basically, as long as the cell chamber was filled to the brim after shaking, I wouldn’t get the low salt fault. The only way I could accomplish this was by manually pouring it back into the cell chamber from the salt cap; otherwise, the brine solution appeared to get somewhat “stuck” in the cap.

It appears that one of the earlier runs of purifiers experienced this problem. I actually traded my initial purifier in for another purifier and have not had the same problem since then. Hopefully, Jason’s 2nd purifier will work better for him. Kevin, I would recommend exchanging your purifier as well.

I will make sure that I communicate with the customer service department at MSR so they know that brine getting stuck in the salt cap can be an issue in some of the earlier purifiers. Please let me know if you have more luck with your 2nd purifiers.

Thanks!

Katie Bolek
Marketing Manager
MIOX Corporation

I just bought the MIOX off of REI and i would just like to say thanks to all of you for your insight and kaitie with the specs its a cool new toy for my pack along with the msr dragonfly and zoid 1

lol i am a msr fanatic

I am very happy to have found this website so that I can get some questions answered that the REI people cannot seem to answer. I have only used the miox to purify tap water in another country. I often have to treat it up to three times to get a decent reading on the strips. Of course, by that time, it is like drinking chlorine instead of water. Is this common or am I doing something wrong? The other problem is the "low salt" light problem others have mentioned. After fooling with it interminably, etc., I am often able to get it to work, but now I realize there may be something wrong with the filter itself. Since I bought it last June, what are my chances that REI will trade it in, or can I do it through the company instead? I would really like to get this to work for me. Thank you.

Is there an alternate source for the test strips? At $17.95 for a bottle of 50, it seems that's the biggest expense to using the system. I've only just started using a Miox though so maybe I'm using more than I need. I realize one can just overtreat the water and assume it's OK. So far I've only played with it on tapwater anyway.

I see free chlorine and total chlorine strips are available in Cole-Parmer for $16/50, so that's not really a savings, and I haven't seen any description of what the MSR strips are measuring or the a threshold in ppm.

About the shaking issue: I got low salt light warnings until I used the technique of not so much shaking the thing, but rather inverting the device forcefully, then forcefully reverting it upright, in a 180 arc and stopping at the ends of the swing, pretty much precisely as illustrated in the manual. (RTFM!) Hope that helps someone.
My issue is the taste. Horrible, nasty, intolerable. NYC tap water, basically. I've made sure of the dosage, etc, and that's just the way it is. In my opinion, MSR is deceptively advertising this thing by saying "no unpleasant iodine taste". Come on! If you don't like drinking iodine, you won't like drinking this MIOX shit. I'm trying to return mine at the moment, but MSR's (Cascade Designs) first response to me was dismissive. If taste is an issue for you, look elsewhere.

After using this product twice weekly for the past year, I feel pretty qualified to add my two cents worth, especially concerning ease-of-use issues. You see, I live on a small island and most homes have municipally treated water or get theirs from a well. Not me. Unfortuanately, I get raw lake water out of my taps. After hauling water from town every week, I bought a MIOX pen, and while the batteries are expensive, the system I use works great.

I disinfect 2 gallons at a time. That means I fill the MIOX pen up with salt and use the 4-liter setting twice. It's for the water that goes into the teapot. For drinking water, I take MIOX treated water and fill a carbon-drip filter pitcher. My water is clearer and cleaner and better tasting than the town water I used to haul.

Here's some tricks for getting the MIOX pen to work consistently every time:

1. While the instructions that come with the thing tell you to fill the electrolosis chamber to the top, then capping it and shaking it through the screen, I found this to method to work only about 30 percent of the time. Instead, I use the old "finger-over-the-end-of-the-straw" principle:

First, I leave the cap MAIN cap ON, unscrew the smaller TOP cap (where one adds salt) and add water to the salt there. I then place my thumb over the top of the now watery salt chamber and shake for a few seconds until the water and salt have had a chance to co-mingle thoroughly. I remove my thumb and unscrew the main cap, letting the salt water flow back down into the red electrolosis chamber. I shake out a few extra drops and hit the button. Works every time. Hope this alternative method helps those of you who struggle with the thing.

After a year, I have no regrets save for the cost of the batteries. Still, this thing goes with me when I travel and backpack. It works great. Take two smaller bottles and drink one/disinfect the other. When I backpack, I'm without a carbon filter, which would remove most nasty tastes, and it's true, when properly dosed, one CAN taste a faint chlorine taste. (It's mostly a faint chlorine smell, but one need not beleager that point here.) Nonetheless, the water in my nalgene bottle isn't as neutral as store-bought mineral water. Oh well, I got over it. I never expected it anyway. I did expect to drink purified water and keep myself from getting sick, which I'm pleased to say has been my experience.

It seams that the MIOX is closed to a perfect product for me. Hiking in the Pyrenees or the Alps, as we normally do each summer, doesn't allow any unnecessary weight, so the MIOX is really good news.

However, what's a bit annoying is the fact that test strips have to be used, or has it? It's not only the price for the kit (test strips + salt, which is ridicules high â?“ more than $30 in Europe, but also the availability. There's only a few shops in Sweden, where I live, or in France, where I spend my vacations, where I can get this kit.

It's fine that any salt can be used but, as Tom earlier asked, is there any alternative to the test strips? Or, do I really need them?

Thank everyone so much for the great info. I am interested in purchasing a MIOX device and am glad to hear more of the pros and cons.

In regards to the battery cost issue: I might suggest navigating to the site www.surefire.com. They make great flashlights which also run off of CR123 lithium batteries. I highly recommend picking one up. While you are there, check out their Batteries section tab. For only $15, you can pick up a dozen batteries. That beats Walmart by about $3.75 per battery!

Jody,
It's possible that the water you were treating in another country was very contaminated and would require multiple doses. However, if that were the case, the extra chlorine from the multiple doses would be consumed, and the water should not have a bad taste. I suspect that the taste issues were related to the "low salt" fault. Contact MSR Customer Service at (800) 531-9531 and explain the situation to them. Also, if you forward your e-mail address to me at katie@miox.com, I can pass your name on to MSR's Product Specialist for some more detailed troubleshooting.
Katie

Tom,
The safety indicators are free chlorine test strips. They are set to measure a minimum threshold of chlorine based on the EPA Guide Standard & Protocol for Microbiological Purifiers. Note that once you test a particular water supply and establish the required dosage, you should not have to utilize the test strips again for that water supply, unless there is an event that could change the quality of the water supply, such as a rainstorm. Most waters will be adequately treated by a single dose of the purifier, but it is possible that some waters will require more than one dose. Thus, the use of the test strips on any "new" water supply will help you to determine the dosage level required for that particular water supply.
Katie

Dear Lempira,
I'm sorry you were experiencing such poor-tasting water with your purifier. As I told Jody, that may be related to the Low Salt fault, although it sounds like you found a way to overcome that. If you are willing to forward your e-mail address to me at katie@miox.com, we can ask some more specific questions to see if we can determine what's going on. When properly dosed, the purifier should not leave a bad taste in the water -- just a faint chlorine odor, as James mentions.
Katie

Peter,

In regards to your question involving use of the test strips, hopefully the stores in Europe will be more thoroughly stocked in the near future. They just began carrying the MSR MIOX Purifier recently and may not realize the benefit of the replacement kits. I will relay that information to MSR so they can encourage the stores in Europe to carry more replacement kits.

Note that a single dose delivered by the MSR MIOX Purifier will meet the treatment needs of most waters. The test strips are intended to be an added benefit, rather than a burden, for the user. The strips are designed to determine which waters may need more than the standard single dose, a determination that cannot be made with other disinfection technologies. For example, treatment instructions for some other technologies indicate 2 chlorine tablets or one chlorine dioxide tablet per liter of water. Chances are that this dosage will be adequate for most waters, but it is possible to come across a more contaminated water that would require a higher dosage level than what is indicated in the standard instructions for these other technologies. The user would have no way of determining if the standard dose is adequate with these other technologies. In contrast, the MSR MIOX Purifier is the only technology that gives you the option to determine if additional dosing is needed via the test strip, although a single dose with the MSR MIOX Purifier will usually be adequate, just as it is usually adequate with these other technologies. With the purifier, even without use of the strips, you still have a benefit over other disinfection technologies since the purifier has been proven to be effective against a wider range of micro-organisms and inactivates those organisms more rapidly.

In my own personal use of the purifier, I do not utilize the test strips every time I treat the water. Once a baseline is established for a particular water (i.e. you utilize the strips the first one or two times that you treat the water), you do not need to use the strips again, unless there is a major event that changes the quality of the water, such as a storm. If there is such an event, you can always double-check your required dosage with the strips again and re-establish your baseline treatment needs. In summary, the test strips enable the user to basically monitor the quality of the water source being treated, so they provide a benefit over other treatment technologies, which provide no way of monitoring the quality of the water source, but they do not have to be used every time you treat the water. For those who are more cautious about their water treatment, the strips just provide that extra measure of security.

Katie

I bought the Miox when it first came out and have had similar problems as a couple other people on this sight. The main problem is that the "low salt" light comes on no matter how many times I shake it. Another problem is that the lid is not sealing and the water will leak out by the time I'm done shaking it. The final problem is that even if I manage to get the lid tight enough to not leak water and I shake it the 20 or 30 shakes it takes to get a salt solution, I can never get the miox to produce a solution for 3-liters. I always get the "low salt" light.

I did call MSR today and I'm sending my miox back along w/ my dragonfly stove, which has had more problems than my failed marraige. Years ago I sent my Mini-works filter back w/ problems, this is my 6'th time sending my dragonfly back and now I have to send the miox back. I have also had to send back my MSR hydromedary bags since they were leaking profusely.

Today the MSR representative suggested that I send along a letter detailing my problems. However, I have written emails and letters and made phone calls to MSR and it is my experience that MSR is more interested in telling me what I need and want rather than actually LISTENING to what I need and want.

A quick mental inventory of all the MSR products I have purchased over the last 10 years comes to a total of about $828. I would think (and my thinking certainly could be flawed) that a company would pay attention to a patron like myself. But like I said... my thinking could be flawed here.

The reason I am posting my comments here is that I see an MSR rep giving some legitimate responses to the questions. So....

If MSR does not want me to switch to Camelback, Snow Peak, Primus and Sweet Water (some of which I have already switched to) It would be advisable to give me some reasonable answers and compensation to my questions and difficulties.

A disguntled customer,
Chad

P.S. please send a response to my email address: cdwayne2002@yahoo.com

I hae not seen any peer reviewed data on the effectiveness of MIOX on Cryptosoridium P. inactivation and at least two articles that says MIOX is ineffective.
http://www.waterquality.crc.org.au/hsarch/HS31j.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=154491&rendertype=abstract

If it is not effective against Crypto, then MIOX seems a bit costly and prone to failure compared to sodium hypochlorite. In addition the the weight of one battery of hypochlorite would treat more than 200 liters so weight should not be a factor.

Another clarification on the test strips -- they are measuring 4.0 to 5.0 ppm of free chlorine, + or - 0.5 ppm.

Chad,
I am getting in touch with Lisa Lange, Clean Water Specialist at MSR, regarding your difficulties. We will be in touch.
Katie

Dear John,

I would be happy to provide you with a copy of the study results from BioVir Laboratories, the qualified lab employing â??Good Laboratory Practices" that conducted the Purifier Protocol testing. Their tests included a battery of tests on inactivation of Cryptosporidium parvum in "Type II" water -- which has a higher turbidity, a colder temperature, and a higher pH -- all designed to present a more challenging environment for water purification. The MSR MIOX Purifier achieved at least a 4 log removal of oocysts (99.99%), while the requirement was only for a 3 log removal.

Both Cryptosporidium reports that you mention above are by Alexandra Keegan, et al. Our Ph.D. chemist reviewed the Keegan research and found it to be fatally flawed -- the researchers measured only the chlorine dose, rather than the chlorine residual. In contrast, the MSR MIOX Purifier instructions with use of the test strips are designed to measure a chlorine RESIDUAL of around 4-5 mg/L. The purifier instructions are based on the exact protocol followed by BioVir Laboratories and ensure that sufficient disinfectant is provided to overcome any background demand that might otherwise consume that disinfectant. This protocol ensures that there is enough disinfectant remaining to act against the Cryptosporidium. In the Keegan studies, they were likely trying to inactivate Cryptosporidium with zero chlorine because it had all been consumed by background demand. The research at Bio Vir was much better controlled. You can be assured that MSR would not make claims of Cryptosporidium inactivation unless those claims are backed by proper research.

I'm not quite sure I understand your statement about the weight of one battery of hypochlorite. I am assuming you are talking about hypochlorite tablets or drops? If so, the advantages of the use of a device like the MSR MIOX Purifier over chlorine tablets include:
-- superior inactivation capability,
-- a much more rapid inactivation (only 30 minutes for Giardia as compared to 4 hours for Giardia with chlorine tablets),
-- better-tasting water (apparently, as long as the Low Salt fault error is not an issue),
-- durability especially in wet environments where tablets can dissolve,
-- unlimited shelf life compared with a few weeks to several years shelf life for tablets, depending on the environmental conditions,
-- the ability to guarantee that the water is safe to drink via use of the safety indicator test strips, and
-- multiple use ability after the replacement of batteries and salt.

Tablets are a light-weight back-up for use of filters and will also readily inactivate viruses, which is the main shortcoming of a filter. Of course, you would then have the weight and volume of the filter in your pack in addition to the weight of the tablets. Use of tablets alone will also work for removal of viruses, bacteria, and Giardia, but with much longer wait times than required with the purifier and typically with worse-tasting water. There are pros and cons to each water treatment alternative available.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

Katie

Katie:

I'm inclined to purchase the Miox, but I did have a concern that hopefully someone can address relating to the O3 compound.

Earlier, you said that known or possible electrolytic reactions at the anode of the mixed-oxidant cell can result in O3 (Ozone). A friend who works as an industrial health specialist for NASA indicated that the third oxygen of O3 is highly reactive. At least in air, the third molecule acts like a free radical and really wants to attach to other molecules. Because of this, it will look for other molecules that are present, attach to them, and form new compounds which can possibly be toxic in and of itself.

I don't know if O3 reacts the same way in water as it does in air, so could you shed light on the impact of O3 compounds in Miox treated water?

(Sorry to rock the boat. It is probably nothing, but I'd really like to know.) Thanks!

As another user, let me share my opinion:

I saw the ad for the MSR MIOX in Backpacking magazine last summer while sitting in a hotel room in NYC during a business trip and ran down to the local EMS store during lunch the next day and picked one up. I played with it for a few days to get the hang of it.

Two weeks later I brought it on a several week backcountry trip into the Sierras. Of the group of about a dozen people I was traveling with, nobody had seen or heard of the MIOX before and most everyone was curious, if not a little suspicious.

By the end of the trip, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE swore they were buying one as soon as they got home. I never bothered using the test strips again after the first few days and I used a stuff-sack for a bivy I brought that had a really fine mesh screen in the material as a â??filterâ? to catch the floaties when filling a bottle before I dropped in the MIOX solution. It was a huge hit on this trip and worked flawlessly.

I never had any low salt problems, although it sure seems like I went through a lot of it. The only thing I noticed is that you had to use a ton of sample water to â??pre-wetâ? the salt. If the unit was bone dry and you dropped in some salt and then put in a water sample, the water seemed to disappear in the dry salt and didnâ??t amount to enough. Often I would immerse the salt side on the unit with water as well as put it in the sample side before screwing it (pre-shake) and that seemed to do the trick.

I usually clicked it to treat double the amount of water I was actually doing. The taste/smell didnâ??t bother anyone and I figured that being excessive was a on the safe side. Nobody ever got sick on our trip.

Fantastic product. If I were in the Peace Core Iâ??d buy a couple of these things before I left. I'm going on an extended India trip later this year and plan to bring it.

--Doug (San Francisco, CA)

I wanted to post a follow up report to my initial post about the MIOX. I earlier had to return a MIOX because of getting a "low salt" reading every time I tried to purify water. After a couple of uses, my new MIOX developed the same problem. I have however, found a way to make it work almost every time. It seems that the reason for the "low salt" reading is that when you fill the cell with water and shake it, not all of the water goes back into the cell. Low water = Low salt. I'm not sure exactly why this is. I have found though, that the following modification to the instructions will allow you to purify water every time:

1) Remove the end of the salt cap (just like you were going to add salt to the MIOX)
2) Fill the cap (with the salt in it) completely with water
3) Close the salt cap and shake
4) Remove the end of the salt cap again (same as in step 1). You should see the water in the salt cap.
5) Completely remove the salt cap from the MIOX.
6) Hit the buttom the appropriate number of times
7) Pour MIOX solution into water

By filling the salt chamber with water instead of filling the cell with water, you are creating more of a salt solution than you really need. Better to have too much than not enough. The excess salt water will pour over the sides of the cell when you remove the salt cap.....and the cell will be full of water. Thus, eliminating the "low salt" issue. Using this method, the MIOX has worked perfectly every time.

My only concern with the MIOX now is battery consumption. Whenever I used the MIOX to treat large volumes of water in cooler weather (35-45 degrees) I would get a "low battery" warning after just a few treatments. It does seem to improve dramatically in warmer weather though. This is not a major inconveniece to me, I'll just have to remember to carry more batteries in colder weather. I usually carry my Nikon N80 camera with me when I backpack. My camera just happens to use the same type of battery as the MIOX, so I'm usually carrying some spares anyway.

I have not noticed any bad taste to water that has been treated with the MIOX. It does have a sort of "flat" taste, but I find it entirely tolerable. It is MUCH better in my opinion that Chlorine or Iodine tablets.

I use the test strips only when testing a new water source (as Katie has said). The instructions call for using 2 test strips with each treatment. This seems a little excessive to me, but I guess MSR is just trying to avoid lawsuits.

Overall, I have very happy with the MIOX once I figured out how to work it. With the batteries, salt and test strips, it's probably more expensive to operate than other purification methods. But to me, not having to pump on filters or gag on purification tablets is worth the price tag.

Jason

Dear DBM,

As you stated, O3 is highly reactive, and in fact, if it is generated in the MIOX cell, it cannot co-exist with the chlorine generated for any longer than a few seconds. Separate studies conducted with chlorine and ozone (not using the MIOX solution) confirmed that ozone does indeed rapidly react. With the MIOX solution, we know only that whatever path the reaction takes, the resulting compound would have to be some other chlor-oxygen species.

Ultimately, when a municipality is treating the water supply with mixed oxidants, only the chlorine element of the mixed-oxidant solution is used to measure concentrations and to determine dosing requirements. Since the MIOX solution is primarily chlorine, this method works quite nicely. Note that MIOX Corporation has over 1200 capital equipment units installed with a combined treatment capacity of over 1 billion gallons of water per day. Our equipment is in 40 states and 25 countries and has been in operation for around 10 years. To date, we have not heard of any negative health consequences in contrast to chlorine from any populations using mixed oxidants.

I also suspect that any possible negative health consequence of using any disinfectant would be evident only after years and years of constant use. Remember that the MSR MIOX Purifier is designed for short-term use when purified water is not available. The user is attempting to protect himself or herself from waterborne pathogens like E. Coli and Giardia that can cause intestinal illnesses and severe discomfort in healthy individuals, and possibly death in individuals with compromised immune systems. Purification of water is designed to eliminate these viruses, bacteria, and protozoan cysts in order to protect the individual in the short term. Typically, when persons return from their camping trips, foreign vacations, or military deployments, they will return to their usual method of water consumption. In short, itâ??s most important to protect against waterborne pathogens in the short term, since those can cause immediate illness.

Hope this helps!

Katie

Jason,

Thank you for taking the time to come back and share your feedback on your replacement purifier. I'm glad that you're enjoying the product!

Katie

I've been using the MIOX for about 9 months now, and after reading previous posts, I'm a little suprized I haven't encountered any of the issues mentioned. I've never had the low salt problem, and I don't find the taste offensive at all. In fact the taste introduced by the MIOX solution does a great job of masking the odd tastes sometimes associated with drinking from plastic bladders or camelbacks.

I do a lot of winter mountaineering, so the MIOX gets a lot of time off this time of year as I melt snow for water, but the battery will act up in colder weather. If you're encountering this issue, spend a couple of bucks more and get lithium batteries. They cost more, but they're lighter, and will function properly in very cold environments. I think the energizer e-squared lithium CR123A runs about $6.

The bottom line is this unit is a perfect companion to my ultralight style.

I've been doing some research trying to compare the MSR MIOX system with the SteriPen which uses UV light instead of a chemical solution. Katie, do you have any information that would help me?

Dear Wayne,

I have a comparison table for individual use water purifiers that I will e-mail to you. I am familiar with the Steri-Pen, which uses UV light to inactivate microorganisms, as you stated.

I'd say the biggest disadvantage to the Steri-Pen in contrast to the MSR MIOX Purifier is its inability to treat water with particulate material, although the Steri-Pen functions fine in clear water. Note that the Steri-Pen was unable to pass the EPA Purifier Protocol in "Type II" cloudy water. Even minute material can impact its effectiveness, so the water basically has to be filtered before it can be treated with the Steri-Pen, requiring the use of a second treatment device. The MSR MIOX Purifier, on the other hand, is more versatile, because it is equally effective in any type of water, including a cloudier water source, and pre-filtration is not required.

Interestingly, UV works quite well against "resistant" organisms, like Cryptosporidium and Giardia, but it is not able to inactivate certain viruses, like the Adenovirus. (Viruses tend to be more of an issue in standing water than in running water.) Again, the MIOX Purifier offers more versatility than the Steri-Pen because it inactivates ALL classes of microorganisms.

In contrast, probably the biggest advantage to the Steri-Pen is that it is a more rapid process (1-1/2 minutes) to inactivate Giardia in 1/2 liter of water than required with the Purifier (30 minutes). The wait period is virtually the same for the more common bacteria and viruses -- 1-1/2 minutes for the Steri-Pen and under 5 minutes for the MIOX Purifier (based on the most recent round of third party testing).

Another factor to consider is the size of the treatment device. The Steri-Pen is much smaller and lighter than a handheld filtration pump, but it's still about twice as big and twice as heavy as the MIOX Purifier.

Also, the Steri-Pen is not designed to treat varying volumes of water. With one dose, the MIOX Purifier can treat a 1/2 liter bottle of water, a 2 liter CamelBak hydration bag, or a gallon jug -- this versatility is nice with a larger group of campers. Also, you can treat multiple quantities, wait the specified time, and have all of your containers of water ready to go at the same time with very little effort.

One last item I haven't mentioned yet is that the inclusion of the test strips enables the user of the MIOX Purifier to ensure that his water is safe to drink. Measuring a certain amount of residual disinfectant in the water shows that there is sufficient disinfectant to inactivate the microorganisms. In contrast, no other technology comes with the safety indicator strips. With other chemical disinfectants, if you're consuming water potentially contaminated by sewage flow, you have no idea if 2 tablets are going to be enough, or if you need more than 2 tablets. With the Steri-Pen you can't tell if you got all the microorganisms, or if one of them was hiding behind a particle in the water, thus making it unsafe to drink. Use of the safety indicator strips with the MIOX Purifier just gives an extra measure of security to the user, especially if he or she is drinking from a source that is potentially highly contaminated.

In summary, the MIOX Purifier is just a more versatile tool since it can treat clear or cloudy water, treats a wider range of microorganisms, is smaller and lighter, is configured to treat various volumes of water, and can ensure that the water is safe to drink. I haven't found the 30-minute wait time to be an issue because I always have multiple containers of water I'm drinking, so I have something immediately available. It usually takes me at least 30 minutes to accomplish whatever other task I'm doing while camping (or I'll treat the next day's water before going to bed), so I tend to not even notice the wait time required.

Hope this information helps!

Katie

I have a question for you Katie, in regards to the MSR MIOX system and its effectiveness against another water issue, helminthes.
With out any kind of filtration there is the high possibility and almost absolute likelihood that one will have some kind of helminth (larval or egg form) in a water supply. With my vast distaste for having a parasite infect my body that can cause much more damage to my body than most adenoviruses or certain bacteria for that matter; how does the MIOX system work against them?

Second I heard it was rumored that MSR was working on a very simple filter that could be used simply as one gathers the water out of the water supply as to strain out some of the particulate. Is that true or is there anything out there that you are aware of that would serve such a purpose?

Water purification is obviously not something that can be taken 'lightly' with the products on the market today, although there have been wonderful improvements in the technology this decade.

I'm amazed that many of the obvious problems aren't identified in the development phase prior to bringing the product to market. Just because the experts can make something work doesn't mean the average consumer is going to attain the same results, or understand the directions in the owners manuals without a college degree.

Unintentional contamination resulting from careless handling and/or a lack of thorough understanding of the equipment and operational procedures has ruined many a trip. How many times have you watched someone pump water and then put the dripping wet contaminated pickup hose in the same plastic bag as the pump discharge hose?

The bottom line is one has to be extremely thorough learning how to use any product, and one best not enter the back country without a backup plan.

Pack your water filter and take the instructions with you till you have developed confidence in the new generation products. Toss in a bottle of pills for a trip saver.

I think Steri-Pen is onto something but they still have a ways to go in developing a product that addresses likely user contamination issues, specifically raw water contacting the Nalgene bottle lip, threads, and sidewall above the clear water line.

The Pre-Filter/pen holder is a good idea but it needs to be separate from the purified water container.

No system is without its downside and there are tradeoffs in either system. First generation devices normally have some issues that result in unhappy customers as evidenced in the MIOX and Steri-Pen sour grape testaments above. Wait for the guinea pigs to field test the new technology, more often than not you'll be glad you did.

Dear Josh,

We have no data on the effectiveness of the MIOX mixed-oxidant solution on helminth eggs or other life stages, including tapeworms. According to the American Water Works Associationâ??s compendium on Waterborne Pathogens (AWWA M48), tapeworm is not a common waterborne pathogen except for in waters heavily contaminated with raw sewage. Tapeworm occurs mostly in waters containing pig waste and human fecal material from creatures already infected. Note that EPAâ??s Purifier Protocol does not require testing against helminthes â?“ only against bacteria, viruses, and protozoan cysts, the more common pathogens. The purifier meets the requirements for these three classes of organisms in EPAâ??s Purifier Protocol, including the protozoa Giardia and Cryptosporidium. Since there does not appear to be much data on any chemical inactivation of helminthes, if such organisms are known to present in the drinking water, removal via filtration or boiling is recommended.

As far as straining out the particulate material prior to use of the MIOX Purifier, there are several ways to accomplish this. One way is to simply let the water settle, but if the water is highly turbid, this may not be possible. The water can also be strained through a T-shirt or a coffee filter to remove particulate material. MSR also sells a strainer filter called the MSR MugMate that would serve nicely for removal of larger particulates (http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/mugmate.asp). Another option is the addition of a small amount of powder called â??alumâ? â?“ this can be purchased at your local grocery store in the baking aisle. One purifier owner said that he adds 1 tsp of alum for every 3 gallons of water treated. The solids settle to the bottom of the water container in about 10 minutes. Alum is actually used in municipal treatment for this same purpose.

Incidentally, MSR is indeed working on a post-filter as a stand-alone unit or for use with the MIOX Purifier, to be available in 2007. This post-filter will be rated for removal of bacteria and protozoa. At this point in time, to remove particulate matter prior to use of the MSR MIOX Purifier, one of the methods described above is probably the most viable option.

Katie

I'm wondering how the Miox works on heavy metals. I understand the carbon in the filters of the MiniWorks and other pump filters helps filter out heavy metals. I am worried because heavy metals can be very toxic and I think I'll stick with the MiniWorks if it gives me better protection.

Kathy wrote that the MSR MIOX is designed for short-term use, etc. (Her entire quote is below). If that's true, does that then mean that it would NOT be suitable for someone going to the Peace Corps, who might use it for two liters of water every day for two years? Similarly, would there be a problem if someone living in a village or even a city in Latin America or Asia used it as the primary way to purify their family's water day after day for years?

Bottled water is still much more expensive in those places than the 5-10cents/liter that this product would provide, but not if there are negative health results from using it year after year. Any info on this would be appreciated.

Alan
----------------------------------
Kathy's quote is reprinted below)
----------------------------------

I also suspect that any possible negative health consequence of using any disinfectant would be evident only after years and years of constant use. Remember that the MSR MIOX Purifier is designed for short-term use when purified water is not available. The user is attempting to protect himself or herself from waterborne pathogens like E. Coli and Giardia that can cause intestinal illnesses and severe discomfort in healthy individuals, and possibly death in individuals with compromised immune systems. Purification of water is designed to eliminate these viruses, bacteria, and protozoan cysts in order to protect the individual in the short term. Typically, when persons return from their camping trips, foreign vacations, or military deployments, they will return to their usual method of water consumption. In short, it�??s most important to protect against waterborne pathogens in the short term, since those can cause immediate illness.

Dear Mathew,

Heavy metals include lead, mercury, arsenic, and cadmium, amongst others. Some of these, like arsenic, may be naturally occurring in the water, but others are added by industrial waste contaminating the water supply. We can also be exposed to heavy metals through inhalation of air pollutants, exposure to contaminated soil, or consumption of contaminated food (such as fish containing high levels of mercury).

Neither the MSR MIOX Purifier NOR pump filters with carbon elements, like the MiniWorks, are effective at removing heavy metals. Note that ingestion of heavy metals is most harmful over the long-term since these substances build up in a person's system. Short-term exposure should not be detrimental, although that would depend on the level of contamination in the water. Removing these contaminants from the water typically requires multiple treatment steps using more advanced technologies. Since standard treatment devices, including filters, are not effective against heavy metals, it is best to avoid waters (and food and air) that may have been exposed to industrial waste.

Katie

Dear Alan,

For long-term use, you want to be more exacting in how you treat your water. The concern with using any chemical disinfectant for a long period of time is (1.) the potential exposure to high levels of the disinfectant residual itself and (2.) exposure to high levels of disinfection by-products (DBPs) that might result. Regarding the use of chlorine (the primary constituent of the mixed-oxidant solution), note that the EPA MANDATES a chlorine disinfectant residual of at least 0.2 mg/L in potable water supplies. For short-term use, the EPA also allows occasional high chlorine disinfectant and by-product levels, requiring only that the annual average values be under the limit.

In regard to your questions about the Peace Corps member and the Latin American family, it is difficult to give a precise answer, because the best treatment method is dependent on the quality of water being treated. The MSR MIOX Purifier instructions are designed to handle â??worst-caseâ? scenarios for the outdoor user, with the goal of creating potable water that is free of microbes. The dose applied by the MIOX Purifier is 5.5 mg/L of chlorine. If the water is a higher quality, this dose may be excessive, and further dilution of the dose would be appropriate. Due to the wide range of water conditions, the appropriate dosage would have to be determined individually for each water source.

The most thorough method of treating water is to combine filtration and chemical disinfection, which is similar to the process used by municipalities. If you want to guarantee removal of Cryptosporidium, there are two possibilities:
1.) Invest in a filter rated for removal of Cryptosporidium (< 1 micron), and then follow up with a reduced dose of the MIOX Purifier and a shorter wait time.
2.) Begin with the full 5.5 mg/L dose of the MIOX Purifier and wait the full 4 hours (perhaps treat the water before retiring each evening). Finish off treatment with a carbon filter to remove any excess chlorine and disinfection by-products.

Incidentally, I have been corresponding with a fellow in Brazil in exactly this situation. His tap water is contaminated by leaking sewage lines, and he wants to treat 10 liters per day for his family, while eliminating Cryptosporidium and minimizing formation of disinfection by-products. He already has a Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) filter. This individual is considering using the MIOX Purifier for initial treatment at the full dosage level, and then following up with the GAC filter to remove high levels of chlorine and DBPs from the treated water.

The main goal for long-term use is to adequately treat the water, while minimizing the amount of residual chlorine and disinfection by-products.

Katie

Hi--

I have been buying lithium CR123 batteries on line from Botach for years. Current price is $20.00 for 20 batteries, ie $1/apiece. Sometimes they even sell them for less

http://www.botac.com/sanyo1.html

I just found a relevant article about a municipal water plant in Kentucky: "To experience health effects from water with elevated chemical levels, a person would have to drink two liters daily for 70 years. The chemicals dissipate readily from water. They are removed when water is heated. For cold drinking water, or in making beverages with cold water, allowing the water container to sit uncovered at room temperature for several hours before refrigeration will allow much of the concentration to dissipate." (http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=3318349)

This is good news for those who are already waiting for 30 minutes or more to allow inactivation of microorganisms.

There is also a good EPA web site that offers more information on water treatment, for anyone who is interested: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/hfacts.html. According to the EPA site, negative effects might occur only after ingesting water with high levels of chemicals for "many years."

Thought this information might be valuable...

Katie

Great site, great discussion. Certainly convinced me that the MIOX Purifier is more a marketing program than contribution to water purification science.

Chlorine, as stated the main consituent of MIOX, has been around for years and is the primary method of treating municipal water, with filters for taste, clarity... In Vietnam, we had canned water, treated at a general facility, dropped into us in the field. When we didn't have that, we used Chlorine. I do not remember a person suffering from water borne disease as I do from air borne projectiles.

I traveled for 3 mo. in Africa several years ago getting sick only once...the day after I used a mechanical water filter. Went back to chlorine and after a few days recovery, all was fine. Scarf worked great for filtering particulate.

So I chose to skip all the batteries, salt, strips, mechanics, electronics and expense and stick to a chlorine solution. And just a bit of dry lemonaide for a change some times.

This is some great info and many thanks to all who have contributed!! I do have one question that many people have hinted at but not mentioned directly. What happens when you say double the dose of MIOX? Does it actually sterilze the solution twice as quick? Is this a surefire way to assure completely safe water? Will it effect the taste all that much?
Thanks to all who reply and it great to see a rep for the product actually answering questions (and trying to solve problems)!!!
Tod

I would like to thank you all for the discussion. It answered many of my questions. I just ordered my Miox and can't wait to try it!

WirelessDj

I bought a MSR MIOX purifier before a 5 day hike last summer. By day 3 after treating ~ 20 litres the replace battery battery light came on. I assumed the batteries that came with the unit were old. I used it last weekend on a canoe trip with new batteries and by day 3 again the replace battery light came on flashing initially, steady the next time. If I wait a while, I can use the unit for a few litres without the red replace battery light coming on. Even though the battery light comes on steady - the unit continues to function fine. Both times I had treated only about 20 litres of water. I understand the unit should treat 200 litres per set of batteries. The temperature was about 50-60ºF. Is this normal or should I send the unit for repairs ?

Dear Tod,

When inactivating micro-organisms, there is an inverse relationship between concentration of disinfectant required and time waited – in other words, the longer the wait time, the less disinfectant required, and the more disinfectant used, the shorter the wait time. However, with the purifier, we found that the wait time actually seemed to be a little more crucial than the dosage applied. I’d be uncomfortable recommending doubling the dosage and halving the wait time without having a third party laboratory perform the appropriate inactivation studies to confirm exactly what happens at varying doses and wait times. I also suspect that at double the dosage, the water would start to taste bad, especially if it was relatively clean water and very little chlorine was consumed.

On the other hand, if you are pre-treating with a filter smaller than 1 micron for removal of solids and protozoan cysts (Giardia and Crypto), you could probably reduce the post treatment MIOX dosage significantly – treat 2 liters with the 1 liter dose, for example. This would deliver approximately 2.75 mg/L of disinfectant to the water. The difficulty is that the safety indicator strips supplied with the purifier will not colorize, because they are set to colorize around 4 mg/L or so. Essentially, the instructions for the purifier and the inactivation verification tests upon which they were based assumed that no previous treatment had been applied, so we can’t state with certainty what will happen if you pre-treat the water and/or alter the dosage.

Note that if you suspect the water is poor quality and no test strips are handy to verify the chlorine residual, it is recommended to increase the dosage, just to be safe. Putting more chlorine in the water is definitely going to intensify the inactivation process, but without the proper studies, I can’t state by how much or how rapidly.

Thanks!

Katie

Dear Roy,

You are correct that your batteries should be lasting much longer. I double-checked with MSR, and they said it sounds like something else is going on with your purifier. Please contact the MSR Customer Service department at 1-800-531-9531. You can return your purifier to them for testing so they can determine the problem, and they will send out a replacement.

Thank you!

Katie

Katie, I've just had my Miox device 4 days ago, and I'm ready to post some considerations.
1)Miox and Katadyn MP1 tablets both remove Crypto. Just to be said.

2)I've tested both against 1lt of tap water at 17°C into separate glass bottles with 4hrs wait time: as far as taste is concerned MP1 is DEFINITELY the winner, having been judged so by 5 different friends of mine.
A similar test over bottled mineral water has led to similar results.
Must be kept into consideration also these concepts particularly "....When chlorine is added to water, some of the chlorine reacts first with organic materials
and metals in the water and is not available for disinfection (this is called the chlorine
demand of the water). The remaining chlorine concentration after the chlorine demand is
accounted for is called total chlorine. Total chlorine is further divided into: 1) the
amount of chlorine that has reacted with nitrates and is unavailable for disinfection which
is called combined chlorine and, 2) the free chlorine, which is the chlorine available to
inactivate disease-causing organisms, and thus a measure to determine the potability of
water."

3)I'm also victim of the "low salt issue" and I do confirm that putting the water into salt chamber solved.

4)Testing the water: I suspect that probably a way should exist to implement an electronic residual chlorine detector into Miox itself, showing via leds the OK, OK+ or LOW levels. I'll ask to my father, a retired Chemist manager for Bayer, if my suspects are well based.
See here. Price would increase for sure, thus it could be offered as an option. Yet it would be far more accurate than strips ;-)

5)It would be nice to implement built in rechargeable Li-Ion batteries or support for external ones. On my Surefire L6 torch I'm using these ones without any hassle (provided that L6 has inside digital circuitry to keep output stable).
Miox uses two 123 batts thus these would be (hypotetically) suitable. Note that one 168S substitutes two 123 batts.

Katie, do you know if Miox works on a timer basis or on a treatment compound readiness one?

Bottom line is that using rechargeable batts would have a positive effect on pollution ;-)

6)Even more urgent: Miox is designed to face also emergency situations, were current and batts would be unavailable. It would be really nice if a Solar Cell retrofit kit would be planned asap. I've one for my cell phone and it works great!

Hope this helps

Cheers from Italy

Katie,

Got the Miox, I have some technical questions:

what is the oxidation reduction potential (ORP) of one shot of the MSR Miox?
Is the MSR Miox solution acidic or alkaline?

Hi Katie,

I have just purchased a MIOX unit on ebay (waiting for it to arrive) and I was wondering if you would help answer a couple of questions:

1. Will the miox work with CR123 rechargable lithium batteries? These have a nominal voltage of 3.6V thus the total series voltage is 7.2V as opposed to the 6V in non rechargables. I purchased these for my 6P surefire but discovered that it blows bulbs on the higher voltage.

2. If the High Voltage circuit in the pen will not handle this 7.2V input I would like to crack the case and tinker (I'm an electrical engineer and am not worried about warranty). Don't suppose you'd email me a circuit to make life easier would you?

Warren

Warren, I've a M3 SF also with KL6 head. Would you please tell me where did you purchase your rechargables?
Thanks in advance

Katie,

Thanks for the great and even handed information. Far better than typical marketing. Kudos to you.

Dear Daniele,

Thanks for the comments! You are correct – both the chlorine dioxide MP1 tablets and the MIOX mixed oxidants are effective against Cryptosporidium, with the same wait time of 4 hours specified for both. (A shorter wait time of 30 minutes is specified for MIOX against Giardia, whereas the MP1 tablets do not distinguish between the wait time required for Cryptosporidium and Giardia, requiring 4 hours for all cystated organisms. Regardless, chlorine dioxide is a very good disinfectant.)

Note that the taste of chlorine would likely be MORE pronounced when treating either tap water or bottled water, in contrast to untreated water. The higher the “oxidant demand” of the water, the more disinfectant will be consumed, leaving less behind to create taste. (Also, a lot of bottled water seems to contain some other compound that reacts with chlorine to cause an unpleasant taste.) Though it IS possible to get a chlorine taste in treated raw water (I’ve experienced the same), it should be barely detectable at the proper doses.

Regarding the excerpt from the CDC, any chemical disinfectant, including chlorine dioxide and chlorine, will react with organic materials in the water. The remaining disinfectant is available to inactivate disease-causing organisms. If there is a lot of organic material in the water, the user would likely have to double dose, whether using MIOX mixed oxidants OR chlorine dioxide. What the CDC excerpt refers to as “chlorine demand” can also be referred to as “oxidant demand”, applicable to any type of oxidant, including chlorine dioxide.

You have an excellent suggestion regarding automation of the chlorine residual detector. We actually investigated such a scenario utilizing a microchip, but it would have doubled the cost of the product. The Palintest method is actually very similar to the test strips supplied, which also utilize a DPD colorimetric test reagent system, which is encapsulated on the pad on the test strip. The Palintest method is indeed more precise, but it would require carrying a bulkier piece of equipment, which would negate the streamlined lightweight effect of the purifier. If someone wishes to use an alternate chlorine test method at home, they can do so. The key is the 4 mg/L residual, which is what the “OK” color on the test strip pad indicates.

I’ve been getting a lot of questions about rechargeable batteries. We actually informally tested some of the 3.6V rechargeable batteries at the 4-liter dose setting, (which consumes energy more rapidly). The batteries were only able to treat 24 liters (i.e. 6 doses) before they had to be recharged. Thus, rechargeable batteries may be a practical alternative for a very short trip or home use of the purifier, but are not the best idea for outdoor / adventure use or multiple treatments.

In regard to your question regarding a timer basis vs. a treatment compound readiness basis, the purifier works by electrolyzing the brine until all of the salt is gone and the oxidant generated has reached a certain level of concentration. The time can vary depending on the dosage selected and how salty the brine solution is, which is dependent on how much the operator shook the purifier. Thus, the purifier functions on a treatment compound readiness basis, rather than a timer basis.

The solar cell retrofit kit is an interesting idea. It would need to incorporate some sort of storage device, such as a capacitor, since the purifier draws a lot of current when activated. I will pass the idea on to MSR! Note that for larger scale emergency relief applications, MIOX Corporation also offers a briefcase-sized BPS unit, which treats 12,000 gallons per day at the same dose as the purifier. This system retails for around $2500 and is not automated, so is not really suitable for individual use, but it makes an excellent emergency treatment system for larger scale applications and communities.

Thanks for all your commentary! I would love to visit Italy one of these days! :-)

Katie

Dear Wireless DJ,

I do not know what the ORP of the solution is – it can vary based on free available chlorine (FAC), pH, temperature, chloride concentration, total dissolved solids, and organic material present. Thus, we’ve never used ORP as a measurement for the purifier. We instead look at FAC – the purifier delivers a chlorine dose of 5.5 ppm, regardless of the treatment volume selected.
The pH of the solution can vary depending on how long the brine is electrolyzed, but it is always alkaline.

Katie

Dear Warren,

The MIOX unit will work with rechargeable batteries, but the batteries will not treat nearly as much water before they need to be recharged. We informally tested some 3.6V 580 mAh rechargeable batteries on the 4-liter setting, which consumes more power. The batteries lasted for 6 doses (24 liters) before the Low Battery light started to blink. The higher voltage did not adversely affect the circuit.

Hope this answers your question!

Katie

Katie, thanks for your feedback, first of all.
Then:
1)Rechargable batteries: please check 168A batteries here https://www.jsburlys.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=32

Here they are the technical data
Pila 168A Li-ion 3.7V 2000mAH
Weight: 45gr
Length: 68mm
Diameter: 19mm
Low self-discharge rate: around 2% per month at 20°C.
Re/discharge protection circuit : no need to discharge batteries before recharging. No "memory effect".
Long life-cycle: 500 recharging cycles
Safe recharge and discharge protection circuit.

One 168A replaces two 123 batteries. And 3.7V*2000mAh is far greater wattage than 7.2V*580mAh.
The question is: will Miox run with 3.7 (and lover) voltage? I guess so, but a feedback of yours would be appreciated.

2)Solar cell retrofit kit: imagine you're planning to go or that you live in a country where sunlight never lacks but batts do or cost too much (Italy i.e.). This kit would be a major upgrade in terms of long term costs and indipendence.

Cheers

Dear Daniele,

I’m sorry – I completely forgot to address your battery question! The 3.7V*2000mAh battery that you mention is too low a voltage – the minimum threshold is actually 4V. The Pila 168A battery will not work for several reasons:
1. The voltage is below the minimum threshold.
2. The solution generated is not adequate below this threshold.
3. The battery is too fat (and short) and thus won’t fit within the battery chamber.

Regarding the solar cell retrofit kit, I have passed your suggestion on to MSR. In which manner would you be most interested in utilizing solar energy?
1. On a short-term basis at your home during a disaster or emergency
2. While backpacking
3. While car camping
4. On a daily basis to treat the household water supply

A retrofit kit may make sense for the first use, but batteries would also work well and would probably last until the disaster had passed. If backpacking, I would imagine the solar contraption and capacitor would be too large to carry with you. If car camping, that might be a different story. If utilizing the purifier on a daily basis, it would make more sense to use the power source from your wall. There would be a number of other things I would recommend as well, such as incorporating filtration, or perhaps using a different technology altogether, like UV or Reverse Osmosis. Please let me know the particular application for which you’d use solar energy, and it may help MSR determine if it’s a project they’d like to pursue at some point. It seems like it makes the most sense for a car camping application.

Thanks!

Katie

After reading a lot about the MSR Miox purifier I bought one last week. I'll be using it for a hiking trip in France at the end of july. I've been testing it with tap water at home - to get the hang of it - and everthing works fine.

I've read there were some problems with water being stuck in de saltchamber. I had this 'problem' too, but is easily solved by wetting the salt in the saltchamber. This solution is also mentioned in the manual that comes with it.

If you think about this, it's just common sense: salt holds water. If salt is dry, it 'll certainly hold 1 ml of water. So, after making the salt wet, there were no problems at all anymore.

If the water still would become stuck for any other reason: just loosen the cap of the saltchamber a bit, then remove the cellcap. That way, you're taking advantage of our natural airpressure: the water will have no choice but to flow down ;-)

The taste is pretty neutral. It smells like a swimmingpool, but does not taste like it. So the claim that there's no annoying iodinetaste is justified.

If you think the chlorine smell is a problem: don't go hiking. You can't expect to go on some kind of survivaltrip and take all your daily luxuries with it. Or, don't use the Miox and get REAL sick... that's the other option :P

One remark I'd like to make is that it takes a 4 liter dose (4 clicks) to make the teststrips happy on 2l tap water!? Or my tap water contains a lot of wastes, or the dosage written in the manual was too optimistic. I never got sick of drinking this tap water without the MSR Miox tho.

Anyway. Bottomline is: this is a very well spent 150 EUR. Highly recommended!

Katie, I think the idea on the solar panel would be to recharge a set of rechargable batteries (optimally in the unit but externally would be a possibility too). There wouldn't need to be a cap, the battery would be trickle charged and would be full when needed. Something like a combination of these two items might work (no, I haven't verified that the output from the solar panel would be enough to power the charger):

iSun Portable Solar Charger $60
http://www.portablepoweronline.com/products/isun/Isun/product_iSun.htm

Rechargeable Battery Pack - 12 / 120 volt Charger w/ battery pack $84
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/212/sesent/00

Grrrrrr.... The battery pack I referenced above appears to be longer than 2 CR123As (hence the "body extending adapter" that's included for the flashlight it's made for) even though it replaces 2 CR123As. So unless a similar "extension" can be built (which shouldn't be too hard) for the MIOX, it won't work. I've seen references to other CR123A rechargers but so far haven't found a 2 bay battery charger with 12 volt input.

Hi Kate

Where to begin without the Two MIOX in my arsenal, back to lugging that old Katadyne Pocket filter with all the technicalities of that product and others of a similar pumping action. Gravity filters work well but are slow and the filter still needs to be cleaned or replaced, bin their done that and still do in the correct setting. As for that salt mixing chamber a bit awkward to use but it does work. I gave up on the salt chamber and now use a pre mixed saturated salt/water solution which is proof against freezing to aprox -15C contained in a One ounce dropper bottle. I add 8 to 10 drops of salt then top up with water and it self mixes, press the button and presto the nectar, the bottle will create up to 200 Four liter doses. One other point of order is how much stove fuel is saved not having to boil water to make it drinkable.

A few point to address

It seems that the if the unit is used continuously for say more than 30ltr of water the batteries warm up to quite a degree around 45 to 50c at which point the battery low indicator will start to blink if the batteries are not brand new. Allowing the batteries to cool seems to restore them to full working order. Using the batteries this way seem to limit them to about 160 liters give or take, suggestions or comments?

I have also created a filtered bladder using gravity and a 4 micron filter that is elevated above the settled turbid stuff, I treat the water and let gravity do its work 10 liters at a time give or take as the activity dictates. Is this enough filtering?
I would also like to know what the power requirements for the unit, how many milliamps of electricity are required to drive the unit to create the doses. I have been using a solar panel to drive the unit directly using good old Sol and it seems to work, the chamber bubbles, the test strips indicate the presents of the correct amount of solution after addition to the water but I am unsure if it is OK. The solar panel I use is 6/12 volt at 550 milliamps is this enough power?

After many many outdoor river, lake, occan, backpack, mountain, car camping trips I have yet to fall ill to disappointment.

Canada is a cold and friendly place

Harley

I will be taking a trip with 12 scouts and will use the Miox as my primary water purifier. Is there a simple way I could create a prefilter to remove the particulates prior to using the miox? I've looked at the Katadyn Base Camp, which uses gravity, but it uses a .3 micron filter and will get clogged quickly using cloudy water--however, I do like the gravity feed design though.

It seems to me if I could find a plastic bottle with a 1/2 inch nipple at each end that I could use to connect surgical tubing from a dirty water bag to feed into the bag I will use for the miox treatment. One could fill the plastic bottle with foam or the spun polyester that can be purchased in fabric stores for stuffing pillows. That would filter out the dirt, not get clogged quickly and be easy to replace the filter material.

Has anyone found a product that will do this or rigged up something like this?

Thanks for your help.

I will be taking a trip with 12 scouts and will use the Miox as my primary water purifier. Is there a simple way I could create a prefilter to remove the particulates prior to using the miox? I've looked at the Katadyn Base Camp, which uses gravity, but it uses a .3 micron filter and will get clogged quickly using cloudy water--however, I do like the gravity feed design though.

It seems to me if I could find a plastic bottle with a 1/2 inch nipple at each end that I could use to connect surgical tubing from a dirty water bag to feed into the bag I will use for the miox treatment. One could fill the plastic bottle with foam or the spun polyester that can be purchased in fabric stores for stuffing pillows. That would filter out the dirt, not get clogged quickly and be easy to replace the filter material.

Has anyone found a product that will do this or rigged up something like this?

Thanks for your help.

This is for Katie but anyone feel free to jump in.

Im going on a round the world trip through India, Africa, and Europe. I am very interested in the Miox, but from reading the above posts, it sounds like i could have a malfunctioning Miox in rural india and be in a bad situation. If you had to choose between the miox or the sweetwater system for reliability and the best protection against all the nasties, which would you buy? i think i know the answer, but i would like to hear some pros and cons, etc. thanks. this is an awsome review page.
Michael

Michael, if you want the ultimate in reliability, buy a) a ceramic-element water filter system like the MSR Waterworks or Miniworks, and b) use chemical purification tablets on the filtered water. The ceramic-element filters are field-repairable, and chemical purification tablets (whether iodine or chlorine) will handle any viruses and bacteria that make it through the filter. Iodine is available in handy tablet form and can be used to treat a lot of water if it's already been pre-filtered for oocysts and protozoans (e.g. 1 tablet for 4 gallons). Chlorine is widely available in the form of bleach, but the acidity of water affects that fairly seriously, but if that's all you can get, it certainly is better than not treating the water at all. Chlorine dioxide tablets are preferable for this application because they are less sensitive to the effects of water acidity, but are expensive and cannot be obtained in most of the world.

That said, while this is fairly reliable, it's also very tedious to pump water then let it sit for 30 minutes getting contact time in a sealed container with a germicidal agent. The MIOX system has one hard-to-find consumable -- the batteries. If you can carry a supply of batteries with you, the salt is easy to find pretty much anywhere. You'll have to decide for yourself whether the convenience of the MIOX system outweighs the drawbacks (keep in mind that you can keep an emergency stash of chlorine dioxide tablets around too in case the MIOX system burps).

In repy to Michael Spencer and Eric,

Every piece of equipment can fail. So, before using it in the field, try it out a lot when you're still at home. I've been extensively testing the MSR Miox for 3 weeks now. In that time I got proficient in handling it very fast and reliably, made sure I could drink not-so-good-looking rainwater and got a realistic idea on how long the batteries last. It also assured me that there's no production fault in it.

If everything goes well in the testing period, there's a big chance it'll work fine in the field too. Take enough batteries and salt according to your testresults at home and there you go.

If the Miox would fail you on a field trip you can always cook your water which should be as reliable, tho a little more of a hassle. Taking an extra waterfilter is an option, but takes extra weight and space. Tablets are convenient, but they don't kill everything, so I'd rather cook my water.

I did not use my Miox in the field yet (I will next week), so my opinion is formed on my testing experience at home, positive feedback from others that use it, positive independent reviews and trust in MSR and Miox. I'll make sure I put up a small report in august on the Miox when I'm back from France.

First off, I'm amazed to see this much participation from a Marketing Manager... kudos to you, Katie!!

For Katie, Harley, and others...

> Harley wrote:
> It seems that the if the unit is used continuously for say
> more than 30ltr of water the batteries warm up to quite a
> degree around 45 to 50c at which point the battery low
> indicator will start to blink if the batteries are not
> brand new.
>
> Allowing the batteries to cool seems to restore them to
> full working order. Using the batteries this way seem
> to limit them to about 160 liters give or take,
> suggestions or comments?

This isn't at all surprising. You're dealing with Lithium cells, which although vastly superior to carbon rod (ugh!!) "general purpose" or "alkaline" cells, _still_ have some measurable internal resistance. At the current draw required to force electrolysis of NaCl + H2O, you're likely looking at a "statistically significant" effect from that internal resistance, especially if you're doing 7x or more 4 litre runs in a row (per your example).

As you noticed, the effect of repeated runs in a row is threefold:
1) The cells heat up
2) The effective output voltage (VDC under operating load) is decreased
3) The overall mAh capacity of the cell (i.e., useable lifespan) is reduced

I have a feeling that the internals of those cells are significantly higher than 50C in spots.

Typically, lifespan testing of a product and its power source is done under optimal conditions. Katie might be able to speak to specifics, but I'd bet they're close to the following:
1) Cells and device at 20C (68F for those playing the home-game)
2) Duty-cycle "on" portion of no more than a "double dose" at capacity (i.e., 2x 4l run)
3) Duty-cycle "off" portion of a duration long enough to allow the cells and device to return to 20C.

For the person who was unhappy with the performance of the MIOX pen at 0C (32F) and slightly above... retry the test but this time, keep the MIOX pen inside your coat (i.e., near your body) until the actual treatment cycle occurs to keep it and the cells somewhere in the 20C to 30C range. I think you'll find that performance is vastly improved.

This bit of advice holds true for most anything involving chemistry-based stored power cells and cold climates. A conceptually-similar example would be "electrically-heated battery blankets" for automotive starter-battery applications in extremely cold climates.

Panasonic publishes some wonderful background data on the CR123A, including bench-test discharge curves, effective output voltages, etc..., but you'll note that they're using an optimized test methodology (duty cycle of 3sec @ 900mA draw, 27sec recovery). For what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that with the load-duration of the MIOX pen for even a single 2x 4l run, the cells would perform as well at 60C initial temperature.

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_Lithium_CR123A.pdf

*****

Katie, as Harley asked, would your company be willing to share a few bits of information?

* As stated, effective output voltage from the power source must be a minimum of 4.0VDC during operation of the MIOX pen.

Are you using a voltage divider, regulator, or similar device to force the supply side of the rest of the electronics to a specific voltage?

Would you be willing to disclose what the "optimal" effective output voltage from the power source would be for the MIOX pen? Is it closer to say, 4.5VDC +/- 10%? (range of 4.05VDC to 4.95VDC)

Would you be willing to disclose a current-draw curve for the MIOX pen including resting state (which I hope is very very close to 0.00 mA!), initial inrush current, and steady state operation current?

With this data, and a little bit of lathe-work, one could build an external power pack for the MIOX pen of arbitrary size/capacity/source, including things like Solar, Wind, etc.... It'd also allow for things like improved cooling for the power pack.

The externalization module itself would be a simple block shaped the same as a pair of CR123A cells stacked (Panasonic helpfully includes physical geometry), with a ruggedized "tail" which would exit through a modified tail-cap on the MIOX pen. This externalization module's style is quite common for other classes of devices... I had one from Quantum Instruments, Inc. (http://www.qtm.com/home/manuals/p240.htm) for my Amateur Radio handheld back in 1992 that looked like a normal slide-on battery pack. They've since phased out that particular product, but you get the idea.

If you wanted to get a bit more productized about it, you could release a retrofit kit:
1) Externalization module (fake cell-stack + tail)
2) replacement head/tail cap+strap

Additional nice-to-haves would be bundle kits with people like Quantum Instruments, Inc. or similar. Quantum's "Turbo Z" (http://www.qtm.com/battery/turboz_main.html) as an example is designed for devices requiring between 6VDC and 9VDC nominal output voltage.

Phew. Long post. For disclaimer's sake... I don't work for any of the companies referenced in this post, nor any of their parent/subsidiary companies. :-)

I have used my Miox for the last several camping trips and have been very happy with it. We are planning a hiking trip to Isle Royale NP next month and had planned to use it. However, their web site gives the following information about the water there:

"Drinking Water: Water not obtained from the spigots at Rock Harbor and Washington Creek campgrounds must be considered contaminated with the eggs of the Echinococcus granulosus tapeworm and other harmful bacteria. Boil water for two minutes, or filter through an adequate water filter (pore size of 0.4 microns or less). We recommend the purchase and use of water filters. One unit for each group of 5 or 6 will provide an adequate and safe water supply. Collect water with a pan and filter the cleaner water. Collapsible plastic jugs are very useful at campsites. Remember, it is unsafe to drink untreated Isle Royale water. Water treated with chemical tablets, such as chlorine, halazone, or iodine WILL NOT guarantee safe drinking water."

From this I take it from some tapeworm egg discussions previously, that the Miox will not provide adequate treatment of the water there. Is this correct?

John

Just back from a 3-week trip in Peru, where we relied entirely on our Miox. A few thoughts based on our experience that might be helpful to others...

"Low salt" indicator problem, resulting from water being trapped in the salt chamber: I experienced this problem the second time I tried it out at home. The problem, as several have observed, is caused by the brine solution not making its way back into the lower chamber after shaking. I found James' suggestion of adding the water to the salt chamber works, but occasionally the residual salty brine would find its way out (especially when the unit underwent large altitude changes). No big deal, but a little annoying. I tried Bram's suggestion of pre-wetting the salt, but didn't find that it worked reliably. After thinking about this for a while, the solution I came up with seemed pretty obvious, and we never had a problem after we adopted it. The trapping of some of the water in the upper chamber seems to result primarily from a surface-tension interaction with the screen s